Episodes

For Connect and Bloom’s pilot episode, it is only fitting that my guest today is Judi Hughes. She holds a special place in my heart — as my long-time mentor and business coach. Judi is also the very important person who gave me the ‘nudge’ I needed when networking felt really scary, if not impossible. In this very first episode, stay tuned for some super honest Q&A, a ton of awesome advice, and a few laughs, too. We’ll be chatting about all this and more:

• the biggest misconceptions about networking 
• networking in times of COVID
• the challenges women face when trying to leverage their network
• common rookie mistakes
• key questions to ask when making a connection

→ Plus, don’t miss out on our 6 Degrees of Separation challenge! If you’ve got an in with Judi’s most coveted connection in Canada, why not reach out and make an intro? Be sure to listen ‘til the end to find out who it is. 

Show Transcript

Each Connect and Bloom episode is transcribed using Otter.ai. While our team is busy correcting typos where possible, it’s inevitable that some mistakes will be missed. (We’re only human!) With this in mind, please forgive any errors when reviewing transcripts, and feel free to report any issues here.

Despina Zanganas 0:40  

Hey Everyone! Thank you so much for listening to the Connect and Bloom podcast. I’m super excited for today’s guest Judi Hughes, partner at Your Planning Partners.

So, the reason I am so excited to have Judi join me today is because Judi is actually my mentor and business coach. I’ve known her for about 10 years and she’s truly taught me everything I know about networking and building businesses. She’s pushed me to do things that I thought were impossible and because of her pushing me out of my comfort zone, she’s impacted the lives of thousands of women so I really can’t imagine kicking off this podcast with anyone but her.

So let me tell you more about her:

Judi is passionate about small business.  Over the past 35 years, she and her husband Nick have built, bought, grown and sold several successful businesses.  She jokes that her small business wisdom and expertise comes from the many mistakes she has made and the lessons she has learned. 

Through their consulting practice, Judi shares her extensive knowledge with small business owners to help them learn and implement the tools and skills they need to build, grow and manage successful businesses.

Judi, thank you so much for being here.

Judi Hughes  1:57  

Thank you for having me. It’s really a pleasure. I’m blushing because of such kind words you’ve said.

Despina Zanganas 2:06

Well, I absolutely mean it. You know, I’ve learned so much from you in the past few years. 

So a bit of background about how we know each other. We first met, I believe it was in 2010, at my former business partner’s book launch. But the truth is, the story starts way before that. So when you actually told me that story, several years ago, a light bulb just went off for me. And it really changed the way I approach networking. Do think you could share that story?

Judi Hughes  2:35

Absolutely. You are right Despina, the first time we met was at Randall’s book launch.

It was a short time after that, we were talking about networking and the importance of building and nurturing relationships that you had your aha or lightbulb moment.

I know I stepped up to the whiteboard and walked you through the relationship map of the 17 relationships over about a 7-year timeline that led to the referral that opened the door to us to doing work with your company 108 ideaspace and subsequently work with you.

As I knew we were going to be chatting today, I revisited that relationship map and I too had a aha moment – not only am I still in touch with most of those 17 relationships but in addition, we have earned over $700,000 of revenue through those relationships.

Additionally, it didn’t stop there – I still work with some of these connections at suppliers and clients and we still refer each other when appropriate. 

The relationship map has continued through our relationship as we share connections and build relationships … it is all about building your business or your career by building relationships.

Despina  4:14

Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s so many people that we introduced to one another, and just our network has grown just because of it. And it’s really interesting to look at that. 

You know, I think one of the other things that I got from that is that networking is a really long-term game. A lot of people, they go to an event, and they meet somebody, and nothing actually happens, you know, like they expect to get a call the next day, and then look at all this business. and actually,  that’s not the way it works, you know, for example with you, it took five years to have me become a client of yours. So it’s something that we always have to remind people that they have to be patient

Judi  5:05 

That’s such a good point because the other piece of it is that it really wasn’t until yesterday when I walked through this connection ladder and started to work through it that I really realized how much revenue we have earned through that, just that one network. We have other networks that were part of as well. The reality of it is we never went into those relationships with the purpose of earning $700,000. We went into those relationships for the purpose of people understanding what we do and helping each other. It’s give and gain. So it’s a really good point.

Despina  5:42 

So I want to change gears a bit. And I wanted you to share the wisdom that you’ve gained over the years. So what would you say are some of the biggest misconceptions are about networking?

Judi 5:56

That’s such a good question, what are some of the biggest misconceptions? One of the biggest ones is the one you just pointed out, which is that people forget that it’s called net working, because the word work is in there. It really is work. And it really is long-term. And it really cannot be about how much revenue you earn it can be a strategy for business growth. And it can be a strategy for career growth. But it can’t be the sole purpose or it really doesn’t serve you well. 

Despina  6:45  

Yeah. I 100% agree with that. So we’re in a different time right now. We’ve in the times of Covid. Networking has been really difficult.  How have you adapted because I know that you’re a part of your business strategy? How have you adapted in the times of Covid?

Judi 7:07 

Yes. The times of Covid and how are we all doing? So networking has definitely changed. The most obvious piece that’s changed is the fact that it’s virtual. And that’s put a whole spin on it that’s completely different. The most challenging part is that the strength of networking or building relationships comes when you take online offline. So what I mean by that is things like LinkedIn, Facebook, all social media platforms are a wonderful way to meet new people to put your information out there to gain credibility but until you take the relationship offline, it doesn’t have the depth and authenticity that it requires to really build that relationship. So when Covid came and networking went all online, it became really obvious to us in a very short time, that we needed to create those one on one experiences with people. So going into a group, where you’re looking at a screen of 20 people who are on chat lines isn’t how you build relationships. It’s how you introduce yourself, and it’s how you get to see people and meet other people but you still need to move those relationships offline to one on one experiences. That’s, the first thing and  And in doing that, then I not only myself but also our clients, we spent a lot of time learning technology, because I’m a firm believer that if people can’t see your eyes and if people can’t see your enthusiasm, they’re not going to be able to buy into your authenticity. So the other thing that happened is that we had to learn new skills and all of them around technology, we had to buy lights and we had to buy microphones, things that brought warmth to the video situation because that’s the most difficult part is creating that warmth. And then the other thing that I spent a lot of money on was postage, I went out and bought 100 stamps. And I’m writing a lot of thank you notes and I’m writing a lot of personal messages. Because again, it’s about authenticity, and it’s about bringing warmth to the relationship. And there’s something very warm about receiving something in the mail that you know, the person has written your address on it, that they’ve written the note and that they put it in the envelope. It really brings a touch of I care to the situation.

Despina  10:10 

Yeah, I think I’ve actually gotten a couple of those notes from you actually and it’s always a nice surprise to get something like that to know that the person is thinking of you.

But what I found with the online networking, I don’t know if you found this, I find that I get a lot more meeting requests for one on one meetings. So, generally, I go into a room and then they bring you into a breakout room. And then all of a sudden after the meetings is over, I get like 10  meeting requests.

Judi 10:51 

Yeah that happens and you can’t do everything, we all have a business to run or a job to do depending on whether you’re in a corporate situation or in your own business. And so you do need to find ways to respond to people, let them know you care, but not necessarily invest a lot of time inappropriately. So that takes a little bit of practice that takes a little bit of compassion and caring for the person at the other end, but finding another way to stay in touch LinkedIn is a really good way for us because LinkedIn is our social platform. But you may have another social platform that you could suggest, why don’t we connect here as a means of staying in touch.

Despina 11:42  

Right? Because I think sometimes it’s just overwhelming. And you know, I started booking out entire days with back-to-back online meetings because it got overwhelming. So I think just like staying in touch via LinkedIn is a great suggestion.

Judi  12:00  

I’m jumping in here you made me think of something. One of the other things is that (and this is the same real-life or virtual connecting) if you are doing a two-hour networking, you need to put another hour after that for follow-up in your calendar so that you actually make the time right up front to respond to people, to follow up with people to make notes to do all the things that really bring the success to networking.

Despina  12:27  

Yeah, I totally agree. I think when I first started networking like really getting out there and understanding it, one of my biggest mistakes was not following up. People would email me and I’d emailed them back and it would just fall off. And I think you’ve said this so many times networking is actually a lot of work. Right. So it’s something that we definitely need to keep in mind.

Judi  12:54  

Can I share a story with you? Many years ago, we had a client who I used to refer to as the networking king. Because if you wanted to know where to go networking, I would just go into Werner’s office and said Werner what’s going on this month, where should we be going, And he was everywhere, he would be at five events a week without any problem. And one day, (he was a client of ours). And one day I went into his office, (he was in the same office complex where we work). and across the back of his desk, he had all of these business cards piled up there, there must have been three inches high across the whole back of his desk. I said Werner what are all those? And he said those are business cards that I collect when I go networking. I said, what are they doing there? Why do you have those cards there? He said, “just in case I need to be in touch with somebody at some point”. And I said, “Well, how would you even know who they were? Why aren’t they in your database? or Why aren’t you inputting these people your CRM?”  He said “ Well I usually don’t follow up with them unless there is a problem” So I said if you aren’t going to follow up? Don’t bother going networking? So a couple of weeks later. I saw him at the elevator and I said: “so Werner, how’s the networking going? He said oh I  stopped networking, you told me if I’m not going to follow up not to bother going. It’s a true story.

Despina 14:38

One of the things I wanted to ask you about networking is what do you love about networking because I know that you do?

Judi 14:40

That’s such a good question. What do I love about networking? I love meeting new people. Actually, that’s probably not entirely true. I love connecting with people and I love connecting people to people. One of my big joys is being able to say: “Hey, Despina Have you met Alex? Alex is really great at this, Or Mark, have you met Despina”. I like being able to help people succeed and I like to help people connect with other people. That’s truly one of my biggest joys. I also like to see people grow, I like to see people grow within themselves. One of the things that I loved about the work I did with you at Lean In Canada was seeing the growth of the women in the leadership roles and seeing them step into their confidence I love seeing that. So it’s really about the depth of the relationships.

Despina 15:54  

Yeah, for those of you who don’t know, the history behind, Judi, she was actually the business coach for Lean In Canada and she really helped us with the strategy in the beginning. So we kind of knew how to grow and what areas to focus on. And you know, now we are at 800 women across Canada so if it wasn’t for you and your guidance, I don’t think we would have gotten to where we are today.

Judi 16:22  

A coach is only as good as the people who do the work.

Despina  16:30 

So that actually brings me to my next question. You know, when people think of networking, they think of like going to an event to meet people. But that’s really not the only way. So other than networking, how do you personally network?

Judi 16:45 

Again, you’re full of good questions, Despina. Networking is a state of mind, it’s a lifestyle to me. And keeping that network going, is a part of the strategy and the growth purpose. And so it truly is written into our strategy. So I have a rule of thumb that I do at least one coffee meeting a week, now I’m doing two with Covid because I feel it’s even more important. And those coffee meetings are with people that I call Diamonds in our own backyard. And Diamonds in our own backyard are people who we’ve done business with before or people, it could be past clients. It could people that we’ve spoken at events before, it could be friends of the company, I call it. People who have been strong supporters. It could be peers, simply people who we know are going to help us grow and who we can help them grow. And so I have these two calls a week or zoom meetings a week with diamonds in our own backyard. I follow up on anybody who clicks through on our newsletter, which is part of our network, because people aren’t on our newsletter unless they’ve chosen to be part of our community. and then on social networks, Linkedin is our platform. That’s our big space.

Judi  18:26  

So what do you do when somebody reaches out to you on LinkedIn? And you don’t know who they are? I guess there’s always two categories of people that reach out, right? Like, there’s some people who are, just trying to sell you insurance or something like that, and then there’s the other group that they reach out, maybe they’ll add you, but they don’t say anything and they’re probably somebody that you want to get to know, what do you do in that situation?

Judi  19:01  

So I think with Linkedin and building your network within LinkedIn, I think they’re probably even more categories, there are the people who are just connected for the sake of connecting. And then there are the people who are trying to sell you something without building a relationship. And there are people who sincerely want to be part of your community. And you have to use a little bit of judgment, I always look them up. So if I get a request, I would go to your profile and see who you were and who you knew that I knew, what reason you would have to be in touch with me. And usually, I would message you back and say: “Hey, Despina, thanks for reaching out and connecting, I noticed that we have seven people in common or however many in our common community, I’d really love the opportunity to get together and learn a little bit more about you and your business. And so that’s one approach. And I have to tell you, that probably only a third respond back, if that, maybe even a quarter, and if they don’t respond back then I’m not connecting with them. That’s OK. In some cases, I will accept if I see a good logical reason for it. If it’s somebody who is part of my standard networking group or if it’s someone where I can see the connection piece. I’ve just accepted. Other times, I’ve actually gotten back to people and said: “I really don’t understand why you want to connect, I’d be happy to connect with you. But let’s set up a time to talk and see where that goes. So you really have to use your discretion, and you can just ignore the ones that you really think this is crazy, there is no reason for this.

Despina 21:04  

What do you think some of the hurdles are that get in the way of building a strong relationship?

Judi 21:12  

Time! Hurdles that get in the way of building strong relationships are a few things. One is time, literally, especially now, people just don’t have a lot of excess time for new relationships. And so you really need to be able to validate why you want to build this relationship. And I would suggest with regards to time that you don’t automatically book one-hour meetings. You can book half-hour meetings, or 45-minute meetings, that’s way easier for people that extra 15 minutes really makes a difference. I also think that people don’t ask enough questions, and they don’t prepare enough. So you should never go into a meeting without some purpose, except perhaps with your girlfriends. But we should never go into a business meeting without some purpose and you need to let people know what that purpose is. So the purpose might be I’m looking forward to getting together with you to catch up, we haven’t spoken to each other since before the pandemic. I’d love to hear what’s going on with you and share a little bit about what’s happening for me. You need to make sure you’ve got a clear purpose and prepare for the meeting, just like you would any other meeting. Go check the person’s LinkedIn, look at their website, see what’s going on. And be prepared to ask questions, don’t sit and just talk about yourself. So that’s how you can strengthen a relationship. The hurdles are that people don’t tend to prepare for networking, they just look at the watch, and I’ve done this too and I know that it’s painful. I’ll look at my clock and say: “Oh, my goodness, I’ve got a call with Despina in 10 minutes, and I haven’t prepared. And so the results of that call are not necessarily a deepening relationship. They may be a good time but they aren’t necessarily a deepening relationship.

Despina  23:07 

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Whenever I’m about to go into a meeting with somebody, I always, first of all, google them, check them out on LinkedIn, as you said, check out their website. And I actually am a little bit shocked by the people that don’t do that when I actually go a networking meeting. They have no idea what I’ve done in the past or anything like that. And it becomes a little bit frustrating because you have to catch everybody up. So we start from zero as opposed to step five. The people who’ve actually researched me and said, “Oh, my God, I think that’s great, you know, I really was impressed when you did this or that”. Those are the people I actually feel a deeper connection to immediately. So I think it’s really important to do that research ahead of time, I think it’s key.

Judi 24:05

It’s super key, and the other part is, it’s almost disrespectful, not to do it. Because it’s almost as though you’re taking advantage of someone’s time without going in at all prepared Taking notes and keeping notes, the one reason I was able to go back and look up this connection ladder was because I have notes about where I met these people. So having some context, when you go into the relationship and into the conversation is really important. And genuinely caring for people is really important, especially right now with everything, being on video, getting off the phone, and suddenly or off the call and suddenly realizing that you didn’t need to ask the person how they’re doing is not a good thing.

Despina 24:55

I have two questions. So when you first started, were you good at networking? And what do you wish somebody had told you. 

Judi

In fact, when I first started networking, I didn’t realize that I was networking, I was building relationships, which is something that actually came quite easily to me because I am a people pleaser. And my inclination is to connect people and ask people for information and so on. My first real networking started many, many years ago with the Canadian Association of Women Executives at the time, they’ve now become the executives and entrepreneurs, and it was more of a lobbying group. It was more of a group of peers of women who were in their own businesses or work in professions, executive professions, and were at the time it was many years ago. So this dates me, but at the time it was for the purpose of equal rights for equal pay, which was in the late 70s. And there was a lot of work being done in large core. And believe it or not, we were also lobbying for three months maternity leave. That’s changed a lot. And that was actually my first real experience. Building deep, really deep relationships within a women’s networking group. Relationships that I still have, by the way, in many cases. And it was the first time that I really recognized the other value of networking, which is not only about building relationships for the purpose of growing your business, but also for the purpose of learning, and for the purpose of sharing a common cause. So that was my first experience. What I wish somebody had told me was many years later, when I had left and rejoined the Canadian Association of Women Executives, was taught me how to create an infomercial that had some impact. That message that say, this is what I do in 30 seconds or less, and I still haven’t conquered that talent. I work at it all the time, but I do wish someone had taught me that in the beginning. The good news is that I carried on the strength of the relationship-building piece and the peer piece of like-minded people piece. But I still struggle with the infomercial piece.

Despina 27:54

Yeah, I have to say I struggle with that too. I’m glad you mentioned CAWEE (Canadian Association of Executives and Entrepreneurs) because that’s one of the great things that they do every month with their breakfast. You have to practice that infomercial and get it really tight. I remember the first breakfast I went to I didn’t have one. So I had to make it up on the spot. And it didn’t look so great. Because of that I went out and practiced it and refined what I do. And I refine it all the time.

So this podcast is about women and networking and getting them to feel a bit more comfortable to do that. What do you see as the greatest difficulty women face in building, developing and actually utilizing their networks?

Judi 28:40  

Again, that’s a great question. Women by nature, are people pleasers very often. And so as a result, I believe that what we don’t do is we don’t make the ask. So you will find a lot of women, not all, but women will go into a networking event and they will make small talk and chitchat. And then we’ll do a little bit of the dance as opposed to making the ask and making the ask isn’t necessarily asking for money or the sale. It might be something like you mentioned earlier that you work for ABC Company. Do you know if ABC company does sponsorship at all because so I really love to speak to somebody there? That’s the kind of conversation that women are not trained to have. And I believe we don’t typically come to those kinds of conversations naturally.

Despina  29:52 

Right? Yeah, I think that a lot of times, we just go to the events, and we just try to form a relationship, but don’t try to actually pull something out of it

Judi 30:07 

Exactly and that something, doesn’t have to be the sale but it’s truly about whether you’re making the ask at the event, or afterwards, if there’s something we specifically want as a woman, we need to learn to ask for it. And I don’t think that comes naturally to women. I think many of us are getting better at it through practice and through example. So that’s one piece. I also feel that some women, not all tend to go into networking events not with enough purpose, professional purpose. And so, therefore, you don’t achieve anything. You don’t come away from the event having had a nice evening, and heard a good speaker, perhaps. But you don’t necessarily come away with any next steps. And I think that’s changing by the way, I think people are learning to network but networking is a skill, and you don’t practice it. And if you don’t learn about networking, you will never get good at it.

Despina 31:30

Is there a really big lesson that you’ve learned about networking throughout the years that you could maybe share?

Judi  31:34  

Hmm, Big lesson, many lessons about networking. The biggest lesson I’ve learned through the years about networking is about the follow-up piece. For sure. And I’ve learned it the hard way, that’s one of my big thing now. So I always say to people, your fortune is in your follow-up. So following up and following up consistently, and that’s one big lesson. And it’s truly preparing, taking notes when you’re there, following up, not treating it as a party, treating it as an actual business or career strategy. Right. And recognizing what you’re there for. In some cases, you really are at networking to build relationships with your peers, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that in fact It’s a wonderful experience to be around other like-minded women and learn together and experience things together. It’s a wonderful thing, and that’s not to be discounted and if that’s the purpose in a particular networking community, that you’re part of that’s perfect. And you still have to nurture those relationships, you still need to stay in touch with those people to do all of that. On the other hand, if you’re, if you’re specifically looking to move up the corporate ladder, further your career, then you may want to look for different networking, spaces, where you have the opportunity to do that, and those will probably be much smaller, and be internal within a company. If you’re looking to grow your business, then you want to look to networking environments that will help you do that, either through referrals or through the actual one-on-one, face-to-face meeting with prospects. So you really need to consider the purpose in your networking. It doesn’t have to be business building, but recognize what it is.

Despina  33:55  

That actually made me think of something. I think a lot of people they go with their girlfriends networking events and because of that, they actually never step out of their circle. It feels so comfortable to be with people that you know. So it’s a lot easier if you just go by yourself and then you’re forced to meet people

Judi  34:14  

That’s so true. I’m in business with my husband, as you know. And when we go to networking events together, I make him sit at another table, because I keep saying to him: “I know you I don’t need to know you”.

Despina 34:33  

Yeah, you know this actually reminds me we went to an event at LinkedIn, I think this was probably two years ago and just before the event, you sent me an email and you said: “I’m going to say hello to you and give you a big hug and I’m not going to talk to you the rest of the night”. and I mean, coming from you, I just laughed when I saw that because I knew it wasn’t meant to be mean. It was a lesson on how to network properly.

Judi  34:57  

It’s nice to go and come back with a friend because you can compare notes and so on. But when you’re at an event, you’ll miss opportunities to meet new and interesting people if you just hang out with people you know already.

Despina  35:14 

Right? Absolutely. So when you go to these networking events, or just not necessarily events, but you know zoom calls or people who reach out on LinkedIn, are there faux-pas or pet peeves that you have that you’re like, I can’t believe these people are doing this rookie mistake. 

Judi 35:39  

My biggest pet peeve I have at networking events is people who walk up to you and say: “oh, by the way, I’m haven’t given you my card yet. My name is so and so and here is my card.” I mean, I cringe whenever that happens to me. So that’s the biggest faux-pas. I certainly think people who attend events simply so they can get the cards out there. It’s not going to bring them anything anyway. Also not considering other people, not asking enough questions. One of the other tools I ensure our clients have (and I know I’ve probably preached to you over and over) is to have five key questions that you use for networking, you can have way more, you can ask as many questions as you want, but having five key questions that are going to open conversations with people are such strong tools because the reality is people don’t really care about you. And that is not to say that they’re not nice, It’s simply that you really want to leave that event knowing more about the people you spoke to than they know about you, because you’re going to follow up and tell them about you. And you don’t know who to follow up with if you haven’t asked enough questions to find out who they are and what they care about.

Despina  37:08 

Do you think you can share some of those key questions with us?

Judi 37:12  

Absolutely. So if it’s a business event that I’m attending, if I’m attending an event that I’m meeting new business owners, and I want the opportunity to meet new prospects, I’ll always ask people how long they’ve been in business. And the reason I ask that is because in our case, our ideal client is not a new business owner. Not to say that I walk away at that point, I’ll see you later. It’s, it’s truly a case of I just want to know. And if they’ve been in business for a year, I always want to know, what’s your biggest challenge been? And I really mean, when I asked that question, that’s the other faux-pas piece, don’t just ask the question for no reason. I really mean it. I want to know, what’s your biggest challenge? And if somebody says, “well, one of my biggest challenges is getting enough clients.” I’ll say, “Oh, well, who is your ideal client? Who is it that you want to meet?” And they’ll tell me. And so by going down that path,it tells me so much about the person, they’ve been in business for a year, they’ve been looking for this kind of client. And I often ask: “what were you doing before? What brought you to be in your own business?” So that’s one piece. If I’m at a networking event that something like a board of trade or lean in or somewhere like that? I’ll very often say to people. “I’d love to know, what was it at this event that brought you here?” And a person answering that they’ve going to tell you a lot. “I’m here because I wanted to hear the speaker.” “Oh, great. well, what is it that’s of interest to you? Have you heard the speaker speak before?” “I’m here because I’m looking for a new job.” and I thought this might be an opportunity to meet some new people” Oh, great. “What kind of job are you looking for?” So consider the event that you’re going to and go prepared with some questions that will start a conversation being opened.

Despina 39:10  

I mean, I find that so interesting because I think it was a book that I read, the author was saying it’s not about you trying to get business it’s about you seeing what you can do for the other person. Right? So it’s more about figuring out what they need as opposed to what you need and then what you need will just come.

Judi  39:36  

Absolutely. That’s such good advice that’s such a good point. The other piece of that’s really critical is you should never be following up or pursuing anyone that you can’t help. And there is always a way you can help people whether it’s using your services or not. So it might be because you can help people by introducing them to someone else, or you can send them a book one, I’ll say to people you know I’ve read a great book about such and such would you like me to send you the title, I’ll send you a link, so there’s always some way you can help people.

Despina 40:14  

Actually, that brings me to my next question. Do you have a book that you can recommend about networking, how people can learn?

Judi  40:23 

Well, my favourite book, and I’m sure I told you this is: Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi and it’s written to the corporate world and it’s so meaningful for anybody because it talks about not only networking events, it talks about how you nurture your network, when you’ve got people who are in your community if you can think of your network as your community, that really changes the way that you treat those people because we all treat our community well. That book is one of the best books around building a network, building relationships to build your career or build your business. The other thing I learned from that book was to ask people for help. And you asked earlier about mistakes that women make in networking. Women aren’t really good and asking for help and that’s a general statement, so I’m sure there are some women who are but there are a lot of women successful women who are not great at asking for help. And one of the things that Never Eat Alone talks about well, the reason is called Never Eat Alone is because you should be going out for lunch or you should be going out for coffee with people and building relationships, and you should be asking people to help you. In order to do that you have to be really clear on where is that you want the help and what you need, and it does a great job of explaining that, I going to leap in and say I just finished listening to a book called Curious Minds. It’s not an exceptionally well-written book, so I’m glad I didn’t read it, I’m glad I listened to it, but it’s a really good book to remind you to be curious, to ask questions, and to really want to know the answer.  I found that the overall message of curiosity conversations. At the moment, I’ve forgotten the author but I’m sure you will find it and let people know. It’s a really good book to listen to because that’s the whole thing if you’re curious enough, everybody has a story. If you ask enough questions you’re going to find out what that story is. 

Despina 42:57

Yeah, that’s a great point. With regards to the Never Eat Alone book, I have the audiobook and I listen to it constantly just because I feel like I need a refresher all the time. So if I’m on my way to a meeting or something like that I’ll put it on, and I’ll remember, and then I hear something new every single time I read it

Judi 43:20

What was the biggest message for you from that book, I’d love to know?

Despina 43:27

I think it’s what I mentioned earlier, I think it’s networking isn’t about you it’s how you can help others. Right. And then other things will come eventually. I’ve heard other kinds of expert networkers say the same thing like figure out what you can do for the other person, because they’ll remember that, or they’ll pass on your name or something like that and just never expect anything out of it, you’re doing it for the greater good. 

Judi 43:58

Absolutely. Great, good lesson.

Despina  44:04 

So, I want to switch things up a little bit. Is there anybody that you always wanted to meet?

Judi  44:10  

Yes, there is, I have always wanted to meet Kim Campbell, 

Despina 44:19

The former Prime Minister, the first female Prime Minister of Canada, 

Judi 44:23

The only female prime minister. I’ve always wanted to meet Kim Campbell, and I wanted to meet her for many reasons. One is that I think we’re probably close in age, I don’t know, but talk about networking, I believe that she was a great networker, and still is probably. The fact that she became the only female prime minister in Canada is such a huge accomplishment. And she still maintained her humour and her sense of womanhood in that role, and I just have always admired that piece, I’ve read books about her and I listened to tapes and interviews with her and that she didn’t lose and hasn’t lost the femininity while maintaining the command or the competence required to command or earn the respect of your peers, and I really admired that.

Despina  45:41  

So, the reason I asked that question is because there is this idea that you know all people on average are six degrees of separation from one another right, through their connections. And I want to try a little experiment with our audience so if there’s anybody out there that knows Kim Campbell or who knows a way to connect with Kim Campbell, I’d love to see if we can try and connect Judi to Kim

Judi 46:12

Oh wow! That would be good!

Despina 46:14  

So, let’s see! If you’re able to connect her you can just email me at despina@connectandbloom.com and let’s see if we can get them introduced and maybe we can follow up on how that’s going in a future episode.

Judi 46:35

I would love it!

Despina 46:39  

Throughout the years I’ve always been asked, people are constantly asking me questions about networking, so I’ve gathered a few of the questions here and let’s see if we can help out some people. 

So I’ve got a question from Shannon and her question is: “I asked a colleague of mine for an introduction to a VP of an advertising agency I would love to work for. She says she doesn’t share her connections as she may need them in the future. What should I do? 

Judi 47:07

Hmm, I wonder what she needs so far? That’s a really good question. In that, it’s got all kinds of pieces to it. My first response is you have to respect the wishes of the person, and good for Shannon for making the ask because that’s the first step. So, she has no choice but to say to this person in the kindest sort of way I really respect your wishes on this and if you reconsider let me know. Now, that would be the first piece. Then, I think of how I would address it would be to say, may I use your name. I’m going to reach out to this person on Linkedin. May I use your name as a reference? In other words, may I acknowledge that I know you? Which is a little bit different than asking for an introduction by the way. It’s a much easier and much smaller ask. So, in other words on LinkedIn, you might reach out to this VP of advertising and say, I would love the opportunity to connect with you, I noticed that we both know Sarah Smith, and sometimes just using that name will bring you in. Alternately, I would just say thank you very much. I’m sorry that you’re not able to provide you with the name at this time, just so you know I am going to reach out to the VP of Advertising. And I would just go for it and reach out to the VP of Advertising without that person’s endorsement.

Despina 48:42

I mean who knows what the reasons are behind not sharing the connections, but I think if you can provide that introduction I think it’s always good because people will remember you. I mean you don’t necessarily want to introduce every single person, but it’s something to consider. 

Judi 49:08

So interestingly, you can’t judge the person for saying no, we can be disappointed. But we really shouldn’t judge. There may be a really good reason and we have to respect the response. Again, as I said, the big thing is that Shannon made the ask, that was the first big step and now it’s time to look for a new strategy. 

Despina  49:35  

So, this is a question from Sarah. I’m a mom of two kids. I know networking is important, but I don’t have any time also most events are when the kids are home. How do I grow my network? When I have to be home with the kids. And this is actually provided pre-Covid, although it still kind of applies to covid when the kids are home.

Judi  49:55

It’s a big Covid issue, by the way. It’s a really big Covid issue. It’s one of the reasons that CAWEE my association is finding it really good because our breakfast meetings are at 730 in the morning. So we’re finding that people that never used to come, come now virtually because their kids breakfast are eating their breakfast in the other room so it’s a big question for moms for sure. My recommendation is always to start with other mum’s groups.

So, start with groups of like-minded people. There are lots of them out there. There’s mompreneur groups and there’s moms working from home and there’s so many different kinds of moms groups and some of them are through meetups and some of them are online, well they’re all online now, but some of them are Facebook and so on. Start there because then you’re building a peer group, and that peer group has the same issue as you have, and therefore are going to be able to offer advice on other places and may be to able to support you in other ways in order to allow you to have a bit more time to do some outside of mom groups networking and share back and forth. So that’s where I would start. Just start networking, but start networking with other moms who are working, or have their own business, then you’re actually building a network of like-minded women.

Despina  51:32  

Yeah, I think that’s a great point because I think they’ll probably be a little bit more empathetic you know if your kid comes along and starts screaming you know they’ve all been through before so it’s a lot easier to work as you said.

 

So that actually brings us to the end of the episode, I absolutely knew that you’re gonna bring some gems and really insightful wisdom to the audience so I want to thank you so much for being part of the show, and I really look forward to seeing if we can introduce you to Kim Campbell. 

Judi 52:11

Before we close. I would really like to compliment you Despina and actually, let you know that while I was working through the preparation for this podcast I was really drawn to the whole name of Connect and Bloom, and it really resonated with me because, as I was working through the questions and thinking through what might my answers be, I was reminded that, in fact, for you, networking was so foreign, and it was so not what you’re going to do. You really had to learn and practice and embrace networking and one of the things that you did was went outside your comfort zone to those first Lean In Canada meetings some of them started as circles and then they grew from there, and by going out of your comfort zone, and talking to people that you may not otherwise talk to, you were able to secure sponsorship money for Lean In Canada which propelled the growth of the group, you were able to become a part of a very successful leadership team. And you were able to bring all that, you bloomed into this connector that was able to help thousands of women, so I just wanted to acknowledge that the name connect and bloom is really good and perfect for you

Despina 54:00 

Thank you! I mean that was the idea behind it. It’s connecting with other people and what other connections bloomed out of that so it was really a message I wanted to get across to other women.

Judi 54:18  

Absolutely. And if women can through this podcast, and through other groups and through networking, connect with other women, and if they will take advantage of those relationships and deepen those relationships, just like you and just like a me. We will continue to connect and bloom.

Despina  54:47  

Thank you so much Judi, I really appreciate that. That means a lot and I’m looking forward to connecting with you again.

Judi 54:43

Well, I’m looking forward to as well thank you for the opportunity. And I’m looking forward to continuing to build my network.

Never Eat Alone, Expanded And Updated: And Other Secrets To Success, One Relationship At A Time
by Keith Ferrazzi

A Curious Mind: The Secret to a Bigger Life by Brian Grazer, Charles Fishman

Women’s Association’s Mentioned in this Episode

Lean In Canada

Canadian Association of Women Executives and Entrepreneurs (CAWEE)