Episodes

In episode 4, I connect with a female entrepreneur committed to connecting other women to inclusive and flexible work opportunities — all the more important in today’s Brave New World. Jennifer Hargreaves is the Brave New Woman behind tellent, an organization she founded to help “bridge the talent gap in the new work economy.” As a fellow woman who’s feeling the post-pandemic pressure, I was super excited to hear her take on things like:

• how to network to find a job
• the best questions to ask when first meeting new people
• why networking ‘mishaps’ can sometimes be a good thing while networking
• how to go with the flow — even if networking doesn’t come naturally
• networking within an intimate online community versus a larger, more impersonal event

Show Transcript

Each Connect and Bloom episode is transcribed using Otter.ai. While our team is busy correcting typos where possible, it’s inevitable that some mistakes will be missed. (We’re only human!) With this in mind, please forgive any errors when reviewing transcripts, and feel free to report any issues here.

Despina Zanganas  0:08  

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for being here! On the Connect and Bloom Podcast. My guest today is Jennifer Hargreaves. Let me tell you a bit about Jennifer. Jennifer is the Founder and CEO of tellent. tellent is a diversity recruitment and social impact company striving to close the tallent gap in the new work economy. We work with women seeking flexible work and businesses to make work, work better for everyone. Jennifer’s professional experience spans three continents across brand strategy and international market development. While her primary school teachers didn’t appreciate her questions challenging “why”, she now embraces that curiosity and the perspective that comes with challenging the status quo to create impactful and lasting change. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me today!

Jennifer Hargreaves  1:30

Oh, it’s a pleasure to be here to speak. I’m really excited about this conversation. 

Despina Zanganas  1:36

Me too. So, the first question I ask everybody all my guests, is how do we really connect.

Jennifer Hargreaves  1:45  

Wow. It was a while ago now is back in 2016, I reached out to you because you were working at lean in, and I was coming up with this new business idea and I really wanted to get some feedback from the market of people who actually knew what they were talking about because my background was not an HR diversity recruitment, anything with what I’m doing right now and I thought let’s talk to the people who know and you were somebody who knew so I reached out to you to have a conversation about this new business idea I had, and that’s where it all started. 

Despina Zanganas  2:17

Yeah, and I remember being like really super impressed by everything because it’s something that was really like unique in the marketplace at that time, right. It’s so funny and then I was thinking that we actually didn’t talk for a while and it was kind of COVID that brought us back together. I remember I was at an event at CBC, and I saw you across the room. Wearing this bright blue suit and he looked amazing he really stood out. And I was like, I remember her that I met her, like, years ago. And then I think it was the next day. The International pandemic was declared. And then I got an email or something about you providing some kind of free trial, I don’t know where I saw it and I was like, Oh, let me just check this out and then I found out a little bit more about tellent and what you’ve done since we last spoke so I’m actually I’ve been part of tellent. Since then, and it’s been really really exciting but that kind of brings me to the next question, why don’t you tell me more about tellent and your business and what you do and really how networking comes into play with that. 

Jennifer Hargreaves  3:31

Sure. Well, as you mentioned in the intro tellent is that diversity recruitment and social impact organization so by diversity recruitment I really mean we’re helping women find or build flexible work opportunities, work that really worked for them in our new economy. We have two main products I help professional women find work through a job board and a virtual networking community because as we’re going to talk about with networking, 60 to 80% of jobs actually come through the hidden job market which is word of mouth and networking, and then we just launched this week which was is the week of International Women’s Day, A new program it’s an eight-week digital course that helps women find or build work in this new environment. So we look at mindset skill set and networking to help them find work that’s worthy, worthy of them.

Despina Zanganas  4:20 

That sounds amazing. So what do you tell me how networking comes into play specifically for this, for your company.

Jennifer Hargreaves  4:28 

Sure. So when I first launched tellent in 2016 at the end of 2016, I was sharing jobs professional flexible jobs with my community and with my email list. And then I launched a job board so I had this job board up there. But what I was finding was that people were still coming to me and saying, Well, I don’t want to post the job Jenny, I just can you just tell me who’s a really good brand manager, I need a part-time brand manager but I don’t want I don’t want to go through the hassle of posting a job or putting together a job description, just connect me with someone, or do you know anybody who does X,Y,Z, because I just I need a little bit of help around here, or I’d be talking to an employer and they’d say, you know, I’m, everything’s going really well. But, you know I really could use some help doing this so all these opportunities seem to be coming up through word of mouth in through networking and then I was connecting them with people but I became the limiting factor in that. So, I would networking is it the stats are true, I’ve seen it in real life 60 to 80% of jobs are being found this way and with the job board even when I was posting jobs on the job board. I get a note the next day saying, Actually, Jenny, I filled the role there was somebody in my community or my network who came in and did it so it really became quite obvious from the beginning that that networking component on top of applying for a job that was just posted on a job board is critical for finding your next opportunity whether you’re launching your own business, or whether you’re applying for jobs I challenge you to think of the last time you got a job or got a new client and where does it come from?

Despina Zanganas 6:09

It, I think, 100% of my clients have come through networking. Yeah, I’ve not posted anything or anything like that it was just word of mouth. So I absolutely agree with everything that you say, it’s so key and I think it’s such a, an important skill to have, you know, 

Jennifer Hargreaves  6:29

people buy from people they know and trust,and, and when you’re looking for a job, you’re essentially, it could sound terrible but purchasing. Somebody services. And that’s, that’s how you get work is by people’s recommendation as long as we do business with other people, networking is going to be critical for for finding or building work that works.

Despina Zanganas 6:47

Yeah, absolutely. That’s what I found, you know, especially with my real estate business people are just, you know, a lot of it comes through Lean In or just friends of friends or things like, things like that they say they’ve had a positive experience and they want to work with me and it’s really, it was a huge lesson for me to learn this because you know when I was younger, I was so afraid of networking, I just didn’t want to go to events I didn’t want to do any of that stuff I didn’t know about you, it seemed like he always came naturally to you.

Jennifer Hargreaves  7:20

No, no, no, 100% not naturally, as I think about it now I can see it’s, it’s a shift in the mindset that’s made it a lot easier for me and actually COVID made, networking easier for me as well and we can talk about that in just a second but when I first started networking especially when I came back to Canada so my career was, I started off in New Zealand, then I moved to New York, then I moved to London, then I came back to Canada to Toronto and I was starting from scratch I had zero network. I had my friends and I had my family I shouldn’t say zero because in networking, I always say start with your friends and family they already know and love you. And even if they don’t know what you do, they’ll tell everybody that you’re amazing. So always start with your friends and family, but I was pretty much starting from scratch from with my professional network. And I found it very, very difficult, especially to show up to big events and I started going to Women of Influence events Lean in Canada, and, and women’s executive network and I would show up and I would freeze in this roomful of people where I knew no one to walk in and have to talk about myself, was very scary. And to this day it’s not my comfort zone at all walking into a big room, and feeling like I have to talk to talk about myself. But what I soon realized that it’s actually not about me, it’s about the other person, and it’s about being curious, and as soon as I realized that it was not about me, it became easy, because as you said in the introduction I’ve always questioned why I’ve always been curious, and when I know that it comes naturally to me I leaned into that gap. So now when I network it’s less about me and what I do, although I’m happy to answer questions about myself because I know questions about, I know the, I know those answers and reframing that took a little while as well as I thought I would freeze when people ask me things until I realized, they’re asking you questions about yourself, if you don’t know questions about yourself, you’re in trouble. They’re just being curious, as you are being curious, and then when I realized it’s about curiosity and I’m a naturally curious person, it became very easy and it became so much fun as well because I am genuinely jazzed by learning about other people and what, what gets them excited and that’s where I find the gold of networking as well as when people just start talking about things that they’re passionate about a whole bunch of stuff, really neat, interesting things come out about it.

Despina Zanganas 9:50

Yeah, I mean even if you’re not necessarily in the same industry or anything like that, just learning about another person just brings out and you never know, like maybe you can refer them to somebody else or, or maybe they’re just a contact that you will need, like, years down the road and how that I’ve found that happened so many times I’m like that person that I met like years ago. They’d be great for that or this or something like that and it’s just been really interesting

Jennifer Hargreaves  10:17

Do you know what is so funny is I was talking to my kids at the dinner table, the other night, and we were talking about asking questions and being polite and we were having like a learning moment, but it moved on to, to exactly this topic, and we were practicing on each other about how, just ask questions and be curious, because it shows people you care that was the point we were trying to get across is when you ask people by themselves and you respond and shows people you care, but it was crazy because I was giving them examples just about one of the dads on the walk home and he was fascinating. I never knew anything about this he was telling me he’s taking courses on martial arts. He used to be a ukulele salesman who has travelled around the world dog sitting like all these questions. It was so interesting and fascinating and I never would have known that about them. And I think that’s the beauty and the joy of networking is maybe I won’t use that information right now, but I will maybe later, it will come up in some sort of regard, if I need a martial arts teacher for my kids, guess what, now I’m going to go talk to Chris because the passion to which you brought, like the passion you brought to that conversation was amazing and it inspired me and I want my kids to be around that so that’s really, you never know when it’s going to come back or when it’s going to be interesting or when it’s going to be relevant, but it’s so fascinating to have it to have networking and have these kind of conversations.

Despina Zanganas 11:47

You know I think that made me think of something a lot of people when they think networking, they think you have to go to an event, right, and then shake hands with people and like hand your cards around and all that kind of stuff but networking is walking home with your kids and talking to one or the other parents, you know, it’s not actually working the room as they say, you know, it can be so many different ways. 

Jennifer Hargreaves  12:20

For me, networking is really relationship building, it’s getting to know somebody and building relationships, and this has been one of the Silver Linings for me, and with COVID is that I’m not going into a room with 300 other people and handing out business cards and saying yes let’s connect on LinkedIn. That’s certainly one way to network, but I’ve been having conversations with people in 30 minutes segments over zoom where I actually get to know them and build a relationship, a reciprocal relationship where we’re both sharing about each other, we’re both seeing if we can help each other. And that to me has been much more impactful than handing out business cards. That’s not to say that you don’t need to do that as well in some certain situations but networking is is really these relationships that you can lean on in the future and you leave somebody with a positive feeling.

Despina Zanganas 13:07

Actually, you brought up networking during COVID, one of the questions I wanted to ask you was how was networking changed during COVID. For me, I can totally relate to what you said, I’ve developed deeper relationships with people. It’s funny I was participating in this morning coffee session with the Elevate network earlier this year and I shared with the group that I was launching a podcast, there was this woman at the event. Anna who joined from Costa Rica, she used to be in the US, but now she’s staying in Costa Rica and she reached out to me and said, I’ve had a podcast for years. And if there’s anything you want me to do to help I would really be happy so we have this zoom chat, and she’s really helped me with like the hundreds of questions that I’ve had over the past few months, and it’s so funny because all of this is because of online networking so you know I feel like COVID kind of made the world smaller when it comes to networking. So I just want to know more about how networking during COVID has changed for you.

Jennifer Hargreaves  14:11  

Yeah, so the. We have a tellent community a virtual networking community with tellent, it’s called the tellent ecosystem and we have 150 Women in that group. And people come and go as they please, but what it’s done is created a bit of a safe environment for people to network because you go in knowing that anyone else in the network also wants to connect with other people. So there’s no hesitation in reaching out and essentially knocking on a door saying hey do you want to have a coffee. Coffee Chat and get to know each other. So we’ve created this safe environment where people don’t have to be nervous about reaching out to connect. And if they say no, it’s because they’re busy at the moment but it’s not because they don’t want to because everybody is there with the same value which is, We’re all here to connect and help each other. And the feedback I’ve had from that in this kind of environment is that it’s been a safe space to reach out. You can do it with more confidence but also for introverts who typically haven’t felt comfortable reaching out, it’s been, it’s been a game-changer because they’ve been able to work their way through the list just reaching out to people having these one on one chats and really starting to build meaningful relationships, and we’ve seen the results in the group as well so having a look at, again, people who are out there, applying for jobs through an online job board versus those who are in the community networking and getting recommendations from others. They’re landing jobs, they’re landing contracts, I get notes in my inbox all the time saying, Hey Jenny, I want to let you know the lady who introduced me to the other day, I just signed a contract she’s actually a podcast editor, but I simply made in an introduction and she, it was an introduction like Hey, she’s in your neighbourhood, you should connect to her, she’s also really cool. And they connected and she got a job out of it and that was never my intention but after the first conversation she secured contracts so COVID has been amazing for diving deeper into these relationships because that’s what we’re looking for, we’re missing connection, and this is zoom has provided a way to connect with people in a much easier way. I know we can get zoomed out, I can get zoomed out as well, especially after a day where I’ve got had back to back networking calls or backpack zoom calls. But I have much preferred early relationships through COVID eyes, they’re much deeper, they’re much stronger. And I really, I found it. Great.

Despina Zanganas 16:37

Yeah, yeah, the same thing for me, it’s a lot less stressful, you know like, even, I’m sure it’s the same with you, you still probably get a little bit nervous when you go to these networking events right. Same thing with me. Even though we are considered Network experts you know there’s still that kind of fear when you enter a room where you don’t know anybody, right. And when you’re forced to do it this way, I just find it’s yeah, it’s definitely deeper, And I’ve met a ton of women through the tellent ecosystem to it’s been yeah it’s been amazing. And you’ve actually connected with me with a lot of these people too. I think you have the same idea that I have, like, when you see two people connect. You get so excited, right, like

Jennifer Hargreaves 17:28

so excited

Despina Zanganas 17:35 

when you see like, oh, they just got it, you know, media contact or something on TV or something like that because of you introducing people like it just, yeah, it just feels great. I remember I did that I introduced to people in an event once, and I saw them posting something about each other and I was like, Is this because of me? and they were like, yes, yes, that’s exactly because of you and he just get a thrill. It’s like, it’s like a high,

Jennifer Hargreaves 17:56  

It warms the cockles of my heart. Yeah, it’s a feel-good, and we do we post have Friday wins. Once a month as well and when I see them coming through, because sometimes you have no idea you introduce people and then you don’t see them for a year or you don’t really know what’s going on or, or what the results have been but when you see it posted it just I get so jazzed, you know, just, just seeing that like I, I helped someone, and that really is the other way to look at networking is, how are you helping others because that feeling of helping people is what feels so good. Right. Yeah, and if you reframe networking, if you’re nervous about it or you’re hesitant right it is how can I help, how can I help and helping doesn’t have to be making a connection helping can be words of support because often I find women who are nervous or about networking, they’re like well I have nothing to offer, I can’t, I can’t help, there’s nothing I can do, yes you can, you can give them a high five. You can give them words of encouragement, you can share a post you can like there’s lots of things that you can do that doesn’t have to be helping them by giving them money or helping them by making an introduction or helping them by helping can be really easy as well and helping feels amazing. It’s, I think it’s human nature and people want to reciprocate as well when someone helps you you’re like oh my gosh, that was amazing how can I help you back. And that’s really the beauty of of networking.

Despina Zanganas 19:27

One of the things that you said reminded me. That’s really great, if you, if somebody has helped an introduction to somebody else. Tell them the result of what happened, right, like, because a lot of times I’ll email people back and I’ll be like, so did you connect like what happened kind of thing, right. But there are some people who are like, Hey, just wanted to update you that I met with so and so and it was a great talk. And we connected now we’re going to go on to this next step right, I’m guilty of not always telling people what happened I think I haven’t told you, with some of the people that I’ve connected you with or that you’ve connected me with, but

Jennifer Hargreaves  20:11

I was just gonna say the same thing is I’m probably terrible at that. I’m probably terrible at doing the follow-up and everything else and it’s funny because somebody reminded me a little while ago about a connection they made and, and what it’s resulted in it’s resulted in a very big beautiful relationship that I almost forgot where it originated from in the first place, it was a good reminder of like, Oh yeah, you did introduce us how great was that, yeah.

Despina Zanganas 20:38

That reminds me, Our first guest actually Judi Hughes she was talking about how she met me, and she was talking about how it’s actually a seven-year process to me because it was like this person introduced her to this person and stuff like that and when I asked her that question she actually went back and started to calculate how much money she had made out of that connection, and it was $700,000. Wow, from that one connection all the way to me that she had made so it’s unbelievable. You know what can come out of it.

Jennifer Hargreaves  21:13  

It’s pretty neat

Despina Zanganas 21:30  

So your business is entirely focused on women. Why do you think it was so important to create a community specifically for women.

Jennifer Hargreaves  21:27 

Because my husband would never be told he couldn’t have a career and kids fundamentally that’s what kicked it all off, was I felt the traditional workforce was telling me I couldn’t be a good parent, and have a career. And I fundamentally reject that statement. And I’m not the only person out there who was going through similar challenges and navigating the workforce and parenthood. Now I don’t just help mothers I help all women because women face unique challenges in the marketplace. And that’s really why I’m doing what I’m doing and focusing heavily on women. I also wanted to create a really safe space where we could be vulnerable, be authentic and show up, and get the support that we needed. I also feel like we just have to move away from this competition thing as well where, where we see each other as women, as competitors, and I wanted to create an environment that was less about competition and more about collaboration because I, I truly believe that you can get further faster by working together even if you’re doing similar things. You can raise each other up, lift each other up get further we’re going to make the pie bigger we’re not going to make it smaller, you’re not going to take a piece of my pie, we’re going to make it bigger. And, and that’s the ethos in which I created Tellent, so the values in our ecosystem and with the propeller experience are really abundance collaboration and generosity, so you can come in and ask for what you need, but also show up and give when other people need help as well.

Despina Zanganas 23:01  

Absolutely, I think it’s so key. So do you think that women network differently than men do?

Jennifer Hargreaves  23:10  

A very good question. I think we show up differently. And I think women are very good at building relationships and being authentic. So I would say that I don’t know because honestly, I’m not gonna lie, mostly I network with women. It’s so funny, and even in trends when I’m talking in the news or media, I give my thoughts and opinions on what women are doing because my network is made up of women, men do come in I do network with men, but not nearly the same quantity as I do with with women. And I find networking with women has been phenomenal and just interesting and beneficial and generous. So I don’t know the answers to that question. 

Despina Zanganas 24:01

Yeah, I mean I don’t know the answer, I have found that we do feel comfortable, a little bit more comfortable with one another right. There’s not that overtone not that there always is that overtone of like, you know, It’s a dating scene or something like that it’s not always like that but it just removes that for certain people right and you just, you can just be more natural, I find, and when somebody is going to a networking event, it’s because they want to connect and want to develop relationships right so.

Jennifer Hargreaves 24:33

And to your point, again what we’ve done in the tellent ecosystem is to create a safe place so that you can be vulnerable. And in our communications we say you know the rules for being in here are, be a good human pretty much that’s it, and be a good human, so and treat others well, how you want to be treated we’re going back to like JK here, Junior Kindergarten what my son’s classroom rules are which is be a good person treat others how you want to be treated. And if you know that when you’re jumping on a call, or you’re meeting somebody for the first time they’re approaching it from that perspective I think it makes it easier to open up and be more vulnerable and be more authentic and genuine and be able to feel like your help is worthy as well.

Despina Zanganas 25:20

Yeah, I think that’s so important. So let’s switch gears a bit and do you actually have a lesson that you could share with the listeners?

Jennifer Hargreaves 25:29  

One lesson I would offer is to reframe networking to not make it about you, but make it about the other person and how you can help them. So the biggest lesson I learned was to just be curious and lean into your curiosity because the more questions you ask it takes the focus off you anyway. And it’s always easier to ask people about themselves as well so be curious.

Despina Zanganas 25:54 

Do you have specific questions that you ask people when you first meet them.

Jennifer Hargreaves  25:29  

I always love knowing what they do, you know, whether it’s parenting, whether it’s teaching, whether it’s surfing, whether it’s mountain biking, whether it’s painting. When you tap into somebody’s passion for me that’s when magic happens when you see somebody’s face light up when you hit that subject that they get so excited about talking about, that is, like, even now my heart is blooming like the most exciting thing to do because you get to and then the questions come easily. Right. Tell me more about this course you’re taking. Wow, it’s a martial arts that’s fascinating, is it just like normal martial arts or is it something different. Oh it’s different, there’s all these research studies, that’s crazy. So how exactly does it work well, what are you learning how are you applying that in your day-to-day basis. At some point, they’re like okay Jenny that’s enough question, you know, but when their face lights up, and when they start getting animated about the things that they’re talking about that’s the magic, and they love talking about it too right so if you ask me about the future women in the workforce, guess what we’re going to be talking here for a very very long time. When you share your ideas I love building out business ideas so when you share your ideas with me we’re going to be talking for a very long time because I’m just going to keep the questions coming. And they come naturally. And I think the same goes for if somebody is asking you questions when they tap into your passion, they’re going to get the same thing back and it’s gonna be really easy to answer as well.

Despina Zanganas 27:27 

Yeah, no I think that’s a great point. So, has, Have you ever had this amazing networking story that affected you personally like did you meet somebody. And basically, your life changed or something like that.

Jennifer Hargreaves  27:43  

My husband, literally, our best friend, my best friend in New York said hey, my friends coming over from England. Do you mind if he comes over for dinner with us. And I was like, Sure. I don’t care. And then my husband showed up. And six months later he moved from London over to New York, and that was it. We’ve been together ever since. And that’s with legit a networking story. And the other thing that happens quite a bit in my business is, I’ll get an introduction from somebody who’s passionate about making an impact on gender equality. And that’s how I built my board. So my board is built with people who I’ve connected with through networking. So that’s been amazing and a great way to reach people who you don’t know even exist. And I’ve just gone through this process of building out the propeller experience and we have 13 instructors, we have four coaches, we have four meditation guides, and we have 12 mentors, they’re all volunteers. So, yeah, a lot of people coming together to try and change the world. But basically I had to go and find all those people. And I didn’t know where to start and that’s really tough so I activated my network and said, Okay, network, I need some help here. I want to make sure that I’ve got people who are passionate in this area people who want to come together with this kind of attitude and these kinds of values around abundance collaboration and generosity to make an impact, and I really had to tap into my board, tap into my team tap into the Tellent ecosystem to say, where can I find these people who are these people and activate that network to get those people to come on board and help us with the project. 

Despina Zanganas 29:42

Wow, so that really shows the importance of having a robust network and how to find the right people for the job. I know that you’re on clubhouse. We actually have a funny story so I don’t know if I told you the full story but I accidentally joined a room. This was probably two weeks ago, three weeks ago, something like that, and you know you’re checking your phone and you want to click on some kind of application. For some reason I accidentally clicked on clubhouse and I was forced to go into this room with three other women, and I was, you know, the fourth. And I was like well I can’t leave, because I know the person who’s moderating. So I just kind of sat there and I was listening and it was actually really interesting but I was in the middle of doing something else. So, and then, I know you saw me on this app and so you joined, and I was like okay great, Jenny’s here you know, and then it was, it was so random, because then you started talking to the moderator. Debo Harris, and she’s in charge of Lean in England. I think it’s Lean in England or Lean in London. I’m not sure. And then you guys connected, and it was just such a random thing because it was an accident I wasn’t actually supposed to go into that room.

Jennifer Hargreaves 31:11

It was an accident. For me too. It was a total accident. It was my first experience using clubhouse. I had never I had signed up and I was looking at it but this I was cooking dinner for the kids, so I had my air pods on, and then I saw notification of like oh Despina is talking cool, quick. And I thought, let’s see, see what happened. And that was really shaky, you know, I’m like, being pulled up onto the stage to have a conversation I’m in the middle of cooking dinner and I was like, happening. But guess what she asked me about gender equality with the future women in the workforce and as I said earlier, these are things that I love talking about, and having conversations about and it was the most serendipitous accident, you know, it was fascinating and we did connect afterwards and we’re staying in touch and actually one of the other women who had been pulled into the room, we’ve now connected and are staying in touch and I’ve got a proper networking meeting to get to know her better later this week as well, So an accidental push of the button, I can sometimes result in some pretty great things, as I say to my kids, and it’s actually one of the mottos I guess I don’t know what that the, the term motto that I’ve kind of applied throughout my life is good things happen when you say yes, and sometimes accidents happen, and they take you somewhere which you never expected. My parents also didn’t like that either too because I was saying yes far too often to going traveling and trips been out to places and taking risks but you know sometimes when you just try something new or try something different. You never know what’s going to come out of it and even if it’s a learning opportunity where maybe it wasn’t exactly how you thought it would be or it didn’t turn out, giving you the results that you wanted this you know for next time as well. So, I truly believe in, in just trying new things and putting yourself out there and going for it. And I always say what’s the worst that’s gonna happen. So especially with networking, and maybe this is another lesson as well is, what’s the worst that’s going to happen if you put yourself out there and ask to meet somebody, they say no, right, they know, oh well, Or they don’t answer. Oh well, it happens to me all the time. Guys, strategically build my network and start identifying who I want to talk to and I start building relationships slowly and start reaching out so that I can help the women in my communities the best that I can so as I said I really strategically, build my network and I’m very targeted in my approach to networking, if people tell me no. People don’t answer, but, oh well, at least I tried. Right, and sometimes they say yes and we set up a meeting and it leads to now I can make introductions into the recruitment manager at X Y, Zed companies so it’s just put yourself out there.

Despina Zanganas 33:56

Yeah, it’s really stepping out of your comfort zone. I mean I had that experience too. I remember it was my business coach who’d like really pushed me to go to an event, and this was when I was really nervous about networking, and I stayed, and I met this amazing woman. You know, and we connected and it was so funny because I originally thought that she was a competitor and she lived in Montreal. So how would we ever do business or anything like that. And she actually moved to Toronto and I randomly got in touch with her And we went out for dinner. We didn’t talk for months, and out of the blue she contacted me and she said, You know, one of my clients wants to donate some money to a women’s organization, and she was like I thought of you and so because of that connection, and I almost left the room that day. I got this huge donation for, Lean in Canada and it was one of the biggest lessons about networking because it’s what would have happened if I left the room that day, you know, and there’s so many times where I was thinking about maybe not going to a networking event or not, you know, online or offline or whatever, and made an amazing connection that really made a difference in my life, you know, so it’s pushing through that doubt so it’s exactly what you were talking about like just go for it, you know, you, you never know what’s gonna happen 

Jennifer Hargreaves 35:24

100% The other thing I also want to say is that in these big rooms at these big conferences, I’m a person that gets a coffee and leaves. Because I hate it so much. So just to be clear, even though I think I’m a super connector and a super networker and I love networking. I also hate it. So, you know, no one’s perfect. No one can just do this, it takes time and it takes energy and it takes practice. And still to this day I remember I flew out to Winnipeg for a conference that I was so excited to go to and be surrounded, I wanted to be surrounded by innovators, and I was and there was amazing people there and I was too nervous to talk to anyone. So I would literally get a coffee and go to my room. During the networking breaks, you know, and it’s and then I’m like, What am I doing here, why am I hiding when I should be going back out there but I found the easier spots to do it were when I would sit down at the table, right before the the conference was about to start, or in the lineup for lunch when someone was ahead of me and I could start making conversation about lunch, but having these are the speaker that was going on stage like I had things to talk about. So even though I’m like yes network networking is amazing, it can be really hard, so I want to acknowledge that as well as I’m not perfect at doing this and I still have a lot to learn. But I also, I love it I love it now too. Yeah, I love and hate it at the same time,

Despina Zanganas 37:07

yes, yes I 100% agree. I think that’s a great point, like when you don’t know what to do with these big conferences, look for something where people are doing something so you know if it’s a cocktail party hang out by the bar, right, because that’s where people who don’t know each other, tend to hang out. So, that’s where you can order the food, the food bar or something like that or, yeah, these little tables or something is going on, because it’s a lot easier than just like walking up to somebody and taking their hand like that actually is still terrifying to me I gotta say.

Jennifer Hargreaves 37:43

Do you have a good icebreaker that you use to see know when you’re walking into a room or up to a table because that’s the scary part is the table where you can see everybody kind of knows each other in conversation, do you have a good one liner icebreaker.

Despina Zanganas 37:55

Well I think it’s okay to just say, Hey, can I join your group, because then people will. I’ve never had anybody say no. Right. So they’re like they make room and then they’re like oh so what do you do so that the focus kind of turns to you and then you can, you know, start talking to other people. If you do see somebody if you find something that’s genuinely interesting about their outfit or something that they wear, like, talk about that like but genuinely don’t say you like something that you actually don’t right, because people can see through that. But yeah, just, if there’s something unique about that person, try to talk about that and it just seems to break the ice, I mean if you talk about the weather it’s gonna you know that the conversation is gonna be really boring right but you know maybe they have a story I oh I bought this brooch when I was on vacation, thank you for noticing it or something like that, I think that’s always a good icebreaker.

Jennifer Hargreaves  38:58 

I’ll take that one.

Despina Zanganas 39:01 

Yeah, for sure. So how about pet peeves is there things that people do when it comes to networking that just drive you crazy.

Jennifer Hargreaves  39:09  

Yes. When they request to connect on LinkedIn, with no introduction, or no hint of how we know each other. And I want to reply and say, I really want to accept you into my network, but I don’t know anything about you. What are you interested in why do you want to connect with me it doesn’t have to be complicated it can be. We’re both. We both went to McMaster University. Or it could be. I saw you talk and you inspired me. It doesn’t have to be, I need something from you, which is also a pet peeve is you’re asking me for something, when you even haven’t even asked me how my day is so the requesting something from me, without any introduction is a pet peeve.

Despina Zanganas 40:00 

Right. Will you always say no, like how do you respond, do you actually say nothing, do you not accept, or in some cases do you accept like what, what do you do?

Jennifer Hargreaves  40:07 

So I’ve started replying and saying hi, thanks for reaching out to connect. Forgive me if we’ve met before, and I’ve forgotten what interested you in connecting with me. I now just I have a template and I copy paste it and I see what comes back, because actually sometimes they’re interested in a job, or sometimes they want to post the job, or sometimes it’s something bigger than I actually think so. I go back and I asked now but on it’s no generally I don’t accept requests on LinkedIn if I don’t know you. Unless it’s got some sort of explanation to go with it. 

Despina Zanganas 40:50

Right, yeah you know what I’m kind of 5050 Sometimes I know why they connected with me like they might have seen me at an event, or they’re part of a certain networking group or something like that and I’ll usually send an email saying hey thanks for connecting and something like that. A lot I mean I probably get 1,2,3, 4 a day about like people that just want to sell me something so that drives me nuts too.

Jennifer Hargreaves  41:22 

Right. Maybe you can sell me something but don’t you want to know who I am and what I do before you try and pitch or sell me, should you start developing a relationship. Imagine walking down the street and somebody comes up to you and says, can I have $10 And you’re like, I’m sorry. Who. Who. Who are you, what do you need the $10 for I feel like it’s the same thing, right, if somebody comes up to me and says, Hi, you know, I saw how you were talking to that other person I really liked how you were helping them with your words and being kind to them, and you know I think it’s really great and there should be more people like you in the world. I was just going over there and I don’t have enough money for soup but I hear there’s a soup kitchen, do you want $10 Right, so it’s just how you approach things with people as well, and relationships are key and being good and kind. Yeah,

Despina Zanganas 42:17  

I mean if you’re just, if you’re just sending a message and not kind of develop a relationship, it’s just pointless, it really is it’s just annoying.

Jennifer Hargreaves  42:27 

What’s the relationship piece. That’s it right is I will I will recommend I will connect I will introduce people I know, but I can’t do that if I don’t know you because that’s also my reputation on the line as well.

Despina Zanganas 42:37 

Absolutely,

Jennifer Hargreaves  42:39  

yeah.

Despina Zanganas 42:45  

Let’s change it up a bit. This is a question that I asked you to think about before recording. Is there anyone alive, that you would like to meet. And the reason I asked this is because this is a podcast but networking so I want to see if anyone from the audience knows that person that you want to meet, and let’s see if they can connect you.

Jennifer Hargreaves  43:00 

So I found this question, fascinating and very difficult because usually if there’s somebody that I want to meet, I will ask to meet them, so I don’t usually have a problem with cold calling or reaching out, sometimes they have a problem with getting them to respond to me. So what happens or what helps in those occasions is a warm introduction. So when I was thinking about this I was like, now from a personal level, who do I want to meet or from a business level who do I want to be. And I came up with a couple of wild ones like just in the Jacinda Arden the Prime Minister of New Zealand I think she’s amazing, I would love to connect with her. I came up with Doug Ford, because I’ve been trying to let you know why I want money. I want him to give me a grant to help me build out this program and I email him every Friday like clockwork. Just asking him again and popping into his inbox just to see if he can fund this project. So I would love to actually get him on the phone and have a conversation with them. And then the other person is Arlene Dickinson. So, yep, she I’ve emailed her a few times and but I haven’t heard back from her so I would like a warm introduction to Arlene, and to have a conversation with her as well because she is a powerhouse doing amazing things, and I admire her a lot.

Despina Zanganas 44:11 

Yeah, I absolutely love her I follow her on Facebook and all these other places. Yeah, she’s an amazing woman. So let’s see let’s see if anybody who listens to this podcast if they know, Doug Ford. Yeah, I know Doug Ford or if they know Arlene Dickinson and let me provide a warm introduction. I know I was thinking about that you know a lot of the people that I invite to this podcast are pretty brave women anyways so I was like a lot of them would just pick up the phone, but let’s see that warm introduction always helps right warm introduction makes all the difference. 

Jennifer Hargreaves  44:58

And the same goes for me if somebody says, introduces me to someone or someone to me. I will take the time to talk to that person because they’ve come from one of my connections or networks, cold calling us a lot harder. I have less time for cold calls than I do for a warm lead or warm introduction from from anyone in my network I will give them time if it comes from somebody in my network.

Despina Zanganas 45:20

Well it’s, it’s all about respecting that relationship with that person, right, because you never know how it could help, I mean that’s not the ultimate reason, you know, because you want something out of it but it’s always good to keep that connection warm and

Jennifer Hargreaves  45:37 

and make sure you respect your network, for sure. Absolutely, and I kind of flip it on the head as well and say, if I ask them to do it would they do it. Yes, they would, they’re asking me for something and I’m happy to do it because they asked me and they’re in my network and I’ve got a relationship with them, a reciprocal relationship. If they’re asking me every other day for the same thing and that happens as well there’s people in my network who ask and ask and ask and ask and, and at some point, you have to say no.

Despina Zanganas 46:00  

Yeah, that’s happened to me. I’ve had people email me and like send me a list of 10 people that they want introductions to and I’m just like, How do you handle that. How do you personally handle that, when it gets to be too much?

Jennifer Hargreaves  46:16  

So this is, this has been happening, fairly recently, and I just say, usually I say let me check with my network, and see how they feel about it as well, because some of them, you have varying degrees of relationships as well. So some people I’m very close with and it’s no big deal and I know that they’re going to say no if they don’t have the time or capacity to do it. Others are sort of cooler in my network so I don’t know them as well and it’s hard for me to ask somebody for favor when I don’t have that strong relationship with them. Yeah, so if I have a strong relationship and I know it’s not going to be a big deal. I’ll say yes, the first time, maybe the second time by the third time. It’s starting to feel like too much. But and if I can’t make it or if it’s a cooler lead I’ll be honest and I’ll say honestly I’m not comfortable making this introduction at this point I don’t have that strong relationship, you might be better to send a request through LinkedIn or email them directly, or I say I’ll check with them and see what they say if they’re open to having conversations and coffee chats right now I know they’re very busy, I’ll let you know

Despina Zanganas 47:28 

that is such great advice I’ve taken some notes and I’m going to use that I wanted to ask you Have you ever had a negative experience connecting people.

Jennifer Hargreaves 47:35 

The other day, and I thought it was gonna be such an amazing fit, because, basically, as you get to know me I think everybody is an amazing human So, usually I’m like, You’re gonna love each other, it’s gonna be great and I had some feedback like it was an awkward first date, and I’m like, Oh, it ended up going okay in the end, but there has been where I don’t know people very well off the bat, and I’ve made an introduction and it’s not been great but that’s been a lesson for me as well, saying, Well, it’s great to know that and I’m going to keep that in mind for next time too.

Despina Zanganas 48:10  

Yeah, I have to say that’s happened to me too.

Jennifer Hargreaves  48:14  

My thoughts and feelings around this too are that I make connections I love networking. I love bringing people together, but at the end of the day, what they do with that is their responsibility, not mine. So, if somebody decides to hire someone that that I’ve put them in touch with, that’s their decision to hire that person or not to get to know them to do their due diligence that’s on them. I just sort of make the connection or bring them together on the first place and I kind of try to separate myself a little bit and say, it’s up to you now what you do with that relationship.

Despina Zanganas  48:49  

That’s a great point. Absolutely. So why don’t we move to questions from the audience. So the first question we have is from Kiki so I’m looking to start a freelance writing business, where do you think I should network to find new clients.

Jennifer Hargreaves  49:06  

Well if you are coming out of a traditional work environment, You might already have a network of people you can start freelancing for right away so I would go to your current network and tell people what you’re doing. I think first and foremost, is let people in your immediate network know what you’re doing and that you are looking for new opportunities. I said earlier in the interview that your friends and family are your first order network start there. You know, I was on the national news a couple of days ago, and half my family don’t even know what I do, I kid you not. So, sometimes you need to go back and say here’s what I do, here’s what I’m looking for, because chances are, even though you’re having a barbecue together or going for walks together, people don’t actually know what you do or what you’re looking for. So, Kiki, I would say start by going to your immediate network and telling them what you do and who you’re looking to help.

Despina Zanganas  50:04  

Yeah I think that’s a great. That’s a great answer. How about the next question from Lisa, do you have any tips for someone looking to network on the tellent community, or your ecosystem, I think, is what she means.

Jennifer Hargreaves  50:19  

Yeah, Lisa, reach out. I just go for it. And that’s what I would say, actually, Lisa, when we’re networking on the tellent ecosystem what I like to do when everybody comes in, is have that first meeting and really understand more about you and get to know you because that helps me immediately point you in the right direction. In who may could be good people to start connecting with based on what it is that you want. First of all, reach out to anyone, anyone who’s on the Tellent platform, knows that people are going to reach out to them and they’re open to building relationships. But I would absolutely set up a meeting with me as well and really understand who you’re looking to connect to and I’m always happy to point you in the directions because the more I know about you, more I can help other people, because I can help other people connect to you or you connect to other people as well so start by just reaching out and setting up a coffee chat.

Despina Zanganas  51:17  

Yeah I think that’s great and you also have networking events too on the platform like virtual networking events, I mean that’s a great way to automate. Yeah. Yeah, I mean there’s tons of stuff going on all the time right and I can say personally from my experience people have reached out and just wanted to connect with LinkedIn and just have a little conversation so I would honestly recommend to anybody, especially you Lisa to just go for it,

Jennifer Hargreaves  51:52

and what’s the worst that’s gonna happen they say no or they don’t answer you.

Despina Zanganas  51:59  

Absolutely. And don’t be offended if people don’t answer you right. A lot of times it’s just because they’re busy, I mean I’ve got a ton of people that I still need to get back to and I’m just like, they’re on my list, I actually haven’t on my calendar every single day and I move it, and

Jennifer Hargreaves  52:12

That’s hilarious I don’t move things out of my inbox until it’s completed. And then I had to like scroll back by three weeks and like oh yeah I still have to get to these ones, and yeah and reply to these emails too so it’s, I agree with you to see that it’s absolutely not personal, if somebody isn’t responding. They are busy.

Despina Zanganas  52:27

Yeah, yeah, we all have busy lives and it’s just, sometimes it’s especially Gen COVID Right, it’s, it’s hard to prioritize all these things so yeah. So Jenny before we close, do you have any last thoughts about networking.

Jennifer Hargreaves  52:40  

I think that in the future work. Everything has moved to online, and to digital and it can be really hard to break through the noise. And I think that more and more, it’s going to be important to build relationships and to network, I would say that is how you’re going to find your next job, your next opportunity. Your next contract is going to be through networking, I think it’s a critical skill and it’s going to be essential for moving you forward in your career, and even in networking as your support system as well as critical so I work with professional women who are in career transition or looking for, you know their next job, their next contract, they’re going into entrepreneurship, but networking doesn’t have to be about building your business. It can be about getting the support you need as well so I would say also lean on your community and lean on your friends and build your network of people who are supporting you and helping to lift you up.

Despina Zanganas  53:44 

You know, that’s such great advice, building relationships and learning how to network is so important, as the world is changing and definitely lean on your community to grow. So that brings us to the end of the episode. Thank you so much Jenny I’ve learned so much from you and your experiences with Tellent and your experiences with networking, I really really appreciate it.

Jennifer Hargreaves  54:06  

Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun.