Episodes

In episode 5, I interview a friend who also happens to be a negotiation expert and author: Fotini Iconomopoulos. Before our chat, she gave me an advance copy of her upcoming book, Say Less, Get More — and I couldn’t put it down. Much like the invaluable workshops she offers, this book is overflowing with sage negotiation advice for women. Tune in as Fotini and I talk about the little known connection between negotiation and networking.

Show Transcript

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Despina Zanganas  0:59  

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for being here on the Connect and Bloom Podcast. My Guest today is Fotini Iconomopoulos.

Let me tell you a bit about Fotini, Nicknamed “the negotiator” as a child, Fotini has been honing her skills her entire life.

For the last decade she’s been helping Fortune 500 companies through high-stakes scenarios and facilitated intensive negotiation workshops for clients across the globe. Her first book, Say Less Get More (HarperCollins), hits shelves in April 2021. (I have to say I got an advanced copy and finished reading it last night and I loved it!)

When not with clients, Fotini is a frequent TV guest and an instructor of MBA Negotiations in Toronto. She also offers her experience to non-profit initiatives and is determined to close the gender gap before it starts.

Amongst her accomplishments, she’s been recognized with the Network of Executive Women’s National Inclusion award as Top 40 under 40 award.

Fotini, thank you so much for joining me today!

Fotini Iconomopoulos  1:45  

Thank you for having me and thank you so much for telling me that you love the book otherwise this might have been a very awkward conversation.

Despina Zanganas  1:53  

I knew I was gonna love it because I’ve participated in so many of your seminars and all that so yeah I knew it was gonna be good. So Fotini. This is a question I asked all of my guests, how did we originally connect?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  2:06  

You reached out to me because at the time you were managing the whole crazy huge Lean in Canada Chapter that you had kind of grown to, I don’t even know gazillion people of some kind. And when I got your note in my inbox, it’s like oh, is this some Greek person I know from somewhere. but it turned out you googled the word negotiation and my name came up, and I’m so thrilled it did because we had coffee I remember I made coffee at Dineen in downtown Toronto and, and I think we just hit it off right away.

Despina Zanganas  2:35  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I thought it was great and I was looking for a speaker of negotiation and, yeah, I think you were the first person who came up and I just thought it was really cool that you were Greek too. 

So can you tell me a little bit about your business or the work that you do and where networking comes into to play?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  2:57  

Yeah, so, I mean, today my work is a lot more keynote speaking so I speak to audiences of all shapes and sizes about negotiation and how to get what you want communication skills, you know team dynamics, high stakes boardroom negotiations everyday scenarios at work just to make sure your voice is heard all that kind of fun stuff. I also do some. I still do a lot of training so companies will hire me and go, can you make our sales team stop losing money or can you make our procurement team be more effective at what they do and then once in a while I’ll still do a little bit of consulting work so when a company is managing some high stakes negotiations with a global retailer or some other massive global organization that go what do we do, what do we say I’m the Hired Gun that they bring in into the boardroom to walk them through that process and help them through it. The reason that networking comes into my world is twofold. One is, I wouldn’t have a business today if it wasn’t for networking. So I quit a job over six years ago that just wasn’t serving me anymore. And I had 50 emails in my inbox in my LinkedIn inbox waiting as soon as I made the announcement people going, what do we, what can we do to open, when are you going to come back to work with us again. And that was all as a result of the unintentional networking that I had been doing for years. And so I went, oh I don’t work for the company anymore and they said we didn’t hire the company we hired Fotini I had been building these relationships. And so, my entire business today exists because somebody who I met in some business capacity, became a friend, and then went hey we want to keep working with you. And then the other reason that I will tell people that my business exists so the reason networking is so important is, I mean I’m a negotiation expert, which means I help people get what they want, and so many studies like study after study when it comes to persuasion and influencing people tell us that you can get down to business right away and you might get close, you might close a deal, but you are more likely to close a deal and you are more likely to close a better deal. If you get to know that person a little bit first. And that’s all the magic of networking, that’s the magic of spending a few minutes just being curious about somebody, so you can get better deals, just by applying some really simple skills.

Despina Zanganas  5:19  

Yeah, I remember reading that in your, your book, it’s all about the relationship building and all that. 

So a few weeks ago we were talking, and I said to you, I don’t really understand how negotiation comes into play when it comes to networking, and you said, of course, it does, and you laid out a bunch of examples for me, can you explain that further to me?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  5:39  

Yeah, so building on some stuff I’ve already talked about, there’s study after study that shows us that when you get to know somebody a little bit better, they want to deal with you. So, part of it is just understanding the dynamics the relationship dynamics between two people, but the other part of it is also understanding who is involved, because oftentimes once you get to know somebody a little bit more you go, Oh, you’re not the actual decision-maker, or you may be one of many decision-makers, or maybe somebody else on the team is influencing the decision-maker so one of the actual strategies that I talked about with my clients when I’m doing this consulting work is we actually will draw it out on a graphic, and go, who’s involved in this, what role are they playing who knows whom, who do we get to need to know better where do we need to build better relationships where do we need to back off some of those relationships. So it’s understanding that you know so many people let’s give it a real example, Back in my, my sales days when I used to work for a tiny company called L’Oreal, I used to have to negotiate with Walmart buyers on a regular basis, and their assistants were some of the people I spent the most time with on the phone and on emails and so on. Their assistance, most people would overlook and go oh well that’s not the decision-maker, I’m not going to spend time talking to them I want to go straight to the source, but they were great resources for me they were sources of information, they were sources of like how-tos. They were people who would tell me, oh don’t worry you can push off that deadline that was not really important or they’d be the ones that go like, hey, this thing’s coming up and I’m going to push you for it. I’m going to push you for this promotion and so on. So, by not ignoring people because it’s very tempting to go oh in the hierarchy of this organization I’m just going to go to the head honcho and I’m not going to waste my time with anybody else. That would be a huge fallacy because these other people are not only resources of information for you but they’re door openers, you know, it’s the old adage of when you show up to an organization you got to be nice to the receptionist, because they can let you in, or they can keep you sitting in the waiting room forever. And that’s a function that’s an extension of that networking it’s building relationships everywhere you can because you never know who can help, but I mean, I don’t, I don’t want it to sound manipulative, excuse me in that way, it’s more about who can I be curious about how can I help them, and how can they help me.

Despina Zanganas  7:58  

Yeah, absolutely. That makes so much sense to me I mean I remember reading a book about the assistants and the other people that are part of that team. They’re kind of the gatekeepers right so they’ll put in a good word or they’ll, you know, knock you off the calendar, never make sure that you’re never on the calendar, so you always have to develop that relationship with every single person, and what I’ve learned through the years is that those people will eventually climb up the ladder. And again, like you said it’s not manipulative, it’s just making sure that you pay attention to everybody’s needs and make everybody feel heard so that they will support you throughout the process that you’re involved in a company.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  8:44  

Yeah, I can tell you from personal experience, I’ve been overlooked before and it has cost somebody nearly cost somebody a job. So when I was working for a consulting firm, I was a solid decade or more younger than my peer group and I was the only female so I was part of an interviewing team that was interviewing incoming potential consultants, and when this one guy stereotypical tall white male dude, middle-aged came in for the interview, I was completely ignored, I was a team of four interviewing this person sitting in a boardroom, he couldn’t have been paying less attention to me to the point where I just disengaged entirely I started doodling on my notebook I didn’t care anything that came out of his mouth, and the key was he needed a yes from every single person in that room. And it wasn’t until this I was sitting next to the CEO and it wasn’t until the guy was paying all this attention to the CEO and asked him a question and when he went, the CEO turned to me and what well. Fotini is actually better positioned to answer that than anybody else, and you could see the old crap moment on this guy’s face when he went, Oh no, I’ve made a grave mistake. And so, when the interview process was over and the guy had left I was like, hell no for me, and I, and they, they managed to turn it around because unfortunately, I worked in an organization where they, they wanted him anyway and my voice wasn’t as important as they claimed it was, but they said well Fotini Why don’t you have another follow up conversation with him, you know, why don’t you ask him some of these questions and make sure that we get to the bottom of it, we don’t want to, we don’t want to misinterpret anything that he did I said I’m not misinterpreting anything he ignored me. And I would never put him in front of a client for risk of him doing that same thing. Instead, what they ended up coercing you need to do it was, we did a follow-up conversation he knew the second I got on the phone with him and I just have some follow-up questions for you. And he was trying to make amends like crazy for it so he was correcting those mistakes but that impression was left and there, it became a problem, ongoing,, for the entire time we had to work together.

Despina Zanganas  10:50  

Yeah, I believe it, you know a lot of my clients tell me that they come to me sometimes. I’m talking about, you know my real estate business. A lot of my clients will come to me because they say they’ve gone to another real estate agent and the male real estate agent would only talk to their husband, and they wouldn’t talk to them, as the female, you know, buying the house, and they just got so frustrated that they came to me because they knew that they weren’t actually going to deal with the same problem. So, yeah, I’ve dealt with it that’s just one example but I’ve dealt with it so many times and it’s, it’s so frustrating, but you have to, you know, make sure you, you take everybody into account. 

So I want to kind of move on. So a few years ago you were at the Collision conference, and you know I was going to all these different networking, not networking events but different seminars, and every time I came out, you were always I think it was the BMO lounge, the BMOwomen lounge or a female or a TD I can’t remember.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  11:52  

It was either BMO or RBC I can’t remember, but I think it was BMO.

Despina Zanganas  11:56  

Yeah. And every time I would go like in between the different seminars, you were there, talking to a different woman and you were constantly networking I thought it was the funniest thing because there was another person, like every single time. So, why do you network, and why do you think it’s important?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  12:15  

I mean, the funny thing is I remember that day, and I, it was kind of like an anti networking approach that works in my favour. Because if you told me go into a room and network, I would cringe it and networking in my mind, and I’m still working on changing it but networking used to be a bad word. And what happened that day was like, I walked into this massive conference hall, I can’t even remember how many 1000s of people were there,

Despina Zanganas  12:41  

It was massive.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  12:42  

It was like ridiculous to the point where there was no opportunity to really get to know anybody until I got to that little, you know lounge area where they had coffee and things like that and I parked it at a table there. And because space was so scarce and because there was nowhere to sit and so on. I ended up getting a new stranger coming to sit with me going, can it take it and I was like no, and so that was a really easy way to lure people to come network with me instead of me having to go out and do anything. And so I enjoyed every second of it but if you tell me Go work or room I would rather pull my eyelashes out one at a time, versus if you said, you know there’s somebody interesting that might be worth having a conversation with, that’s a different mentality to me, and so I love meeting people, I really, truly do it’s the circumstances that can make it more or less comfortable for me. And I think because of that, that Collision experience when you know we’re all there for a similar reason you have a bunch of people who are they’re curious about something, whether they’re curious about people are curious about technology, you already have something in common with them so that makes life a little bit easier. And then when you’re both having this shared experience of there’s nowhere to sit, you’re forced to kind of bond because of that, and that makes it all quite easy, but I do believe in the value of networking, even though I’d love to change the connotation attached to the word because I’ve met such cool people who I didn’t know before, who have blossomed into really interesting friendships or business opportunities or, you know, lifelong relationships. So, I see the value in it because I think we’d be really, life would be really unsatisfying. If I was a hermit who didn’t talk to anybody, quite frankly, when you’re self-employed, you also need not only to build your business because you need people to want to refer you and all that kind of stuff, but it can feel really lonely being a lone ranger when you’re self-employed and you don’t have a built-in team of people to go hang out at the watercooler with and all that kind of stuff so that networking becomes even more important from that perspective.

Despina Zanganas  14:48  

Yeah, absolutely my networking experiences have increased ever since I became an independent person working for myself. It’s really funny whenever my friends cancel on me for dinner or something, I get really upset because I’m like, This is my time out because I’m always in the house right so it’s always good to interact with, with other people. The other thing you said that I thought was really interesting, you know like conferences are really hard to connect with people, and I think that the way to do that is, you know, where there’s a little coffee spot or where there’s a little lounge or something like that, it makes it a lot easier because actually going up to somebody in a big room and starting to talk to them is really intimidating for the majority of people even me who you know is supposed to do this, or who is this great networker, you know it’s really difficult.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  15:41  

Yeah, I’d say the snack areas are a great place to meet people. And to this day I can think of instances where I’ve been at an event and it and you know both picking up some celery sticks or something like that and the person next to me somehow. We ended up striking up a conversation because it’s a comment on, have you tried that pizza is really good. And you know I can think of one instance, a few years ago at a women’s entrepreneurial something event. And this woman Sharon and I struck a conversation up at the snack table we ended up sitting next to each other at the event, a couple years later she ended up hiring me to do some work for her team. You know those things happen. Same things happened to me on an airplane and in an airport and at a restaurant and then a hotel like you just find those little moments where you have a shared experience, whether it’s over, you have a snack bar or the waiting area or the lineup at Starbucks. And then there can be really interesting opportunities to meet people, usually food is the easiest one of all.

Despina Zanganas  16:36  

Yeah, it’s true. I think that’s why people get so afraid of the word, networking, they think it’s like walking into a room, and it’s an event, right, but yeah, like you said, there’s so many different areas like just me reaching out to me on LinkedIn, you know that was a networking, a way to network as well. People just don’t think of it that way. 

So you talk in your book about preparation and always preparing for a negotiation that you’re going to do. What do you think the best way to prepare for a networking event is not a networking event or like you know a Collision conference or something like that.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  17:13  

Yeah, I would say there’s, there’s two ways one is the obvious one is if you’re going to go meet a bunch of people at an organization know something about what they do right that’s the easy stuff, do your homework if you’re going in for an interview and that kind of thing you can Google the folks who you’re going to be being interviewed by and all that, that fun stuff. But I think the most overlooked pieces is prepare to know yourself. What are your interests that you would have in common with these people? What is your reason for being there today, what is it that you bring to the table in some way, what is interesting about you, and it’s not about rehearsing it knowing it word for word, but, you know, I tell people in negotiations to prepare and make sure that when it comes out of your mouth for that first time it’s not when you’re in the hot seat. It’s you know when you’re going for a salary negotiation, you don’t want the proposal to come out of your mouth for the very first time when you’re speaking the hiring manager do it when you’re in front of a mirror or something like that. So I’d say the same can be true when you’re going into an opportunity, an opportunity where you know you’re going to be introducing yourself to people. So what does your short introduction sound like what is most going to be most appealing to these people are most interesting to these people and it will be different. In one group versus another, if you’re going to Collision and you know you’re going to talk to a bunch of people who are crazy about tech what interesting story, could you share about something like that if you’re going to a concert, you know what your favourite song is from that artist, there’s, you know there’s opportunities to think about some of these things in advance to take some of the edge off and some of that, that weirdness and the awkwardness when you open your mouth for the first time.

Despina Zanganas  18:52  

Yeah, that makes sense. 

So, you know, now you’ve prepared, you’ve rehearsed everything about yourself. What questions would you ask? That was another thing you brought up in your book, a lot is, you know, curiosity and be curious about the other person. Yeah. What would you say to the other person?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  19:13  

Well, I think it starts with something like what brought you here today. You know, and that’s almost like saying what do we have in common, and it’s about going in with this mentality of curiosity, and that’s a really easy, you know, low hanging fruit way of striking up a conversation. You know what brought you here today might be a friend told me about it I was forced to, oh okay well if you were forced to what’s making you stay, you know, there’s lots of ways to build on some of those things, I would avoid yes or no questions Do you know the host? Yeah. Or no, that’s not gonna get us very far, but thinking about what are, what on how questions that will force someone to, to speak a little bit more coax a little bit more information out of them.

Despina Zanganas  19:55  

You’ve got a very loyal following. How were you able to grow this network so quickly and what do you think that drives so many people to you and always wants to meet you?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  20:07  

You know, it’s, I have the coolest following and I and I really think it was Accipurpadental. Oh. What that means is it wasn’t intentional per se for me. So it all started years ago I started. If you ever Google me, LinkedIn is the first thing that comes up because when I was running workshops when I was working with clients, the first thing I would do when, when we were done our work together is, I would encourage people to connect with me on LinkedIn, because where I loved sharing stuff was, hey, this article was useful for me. This might be useful for you too and I would share it with my audience so for me it was an intentional. Hey you, you’ve worked with me on a workshop you’ve done some work with me I want to help you keep your learning nice and high, so I’ll just plot some reminders in your newsfeed, you know, if you connect with me going forward and it was really a chance to, You know, share information, share value and also keep track of what people were doing because I, you know that every couple of years in Toronto, people are switching jobs or switching companies and you hate that, to get that undeliverable message that says this email, no longer exists, and I met people usually through work and their work email addresses. So that was one of the things that started working in my favour and then because I kept sharing value because I kept putting value out there, I started attracting the connections of connections. And so I was like okay, sure, like, welcome to the party person I don’t know if you’re interested in the same thing that I’m interested in and clearly we have something in common. And then I started doing the same thing on Instagram, instead of being a passive user I was somebody who was sharing those nuggets who was sharing what happens behind the scenes who was answering questions about, you know, taking questions from the audience and sharing that information out there so people became attracted to the value that I put out there, so it wasn’t so much an intentional I must network with people I must grow my following it was when you put valuable information out there you attract a certain type of person, somebody who’s seeking out that value, That same value somebody who has a same interest in that topic. And so all of my followers have been organic I’ve never had to buy them, not that I have a massive amount of them but they also follow me wherever I go, if I’m on LinkedIn and I say Hey, follow me over here on Instagram, they’ll follow me on Instagram because they’re gonna go hey whatever wherever she is, she’s providing value to us. And, and that’s an exchange that people want. And so when the opportunity comes up when I say something like hey folks, the book is coming out, tell your friends, they’re gonna go yeah she’s provided value to me so of course, I want to tell my friends and provide value to them and provide value to Fotini back. That is the nature of reciprocity of what we do as humans and that’s another principle of influence and persuasion, so I wasn’t doing it intentionally, it kind of happened, it was it’s a really happy accident, because now I’ve got, I don’t know I think over 7000 followers on LinkedIn, which is not huge but it’s not nothing, and I’m growing every day on Instagram as well and it’s all because you just put really good energy into the world and it comes back to you. 

Despina Zanganas  23:15  

Yeah, I think that’s another way to network too is just posting content because then people actually reach out and they feel like they get to know you, And it’s just another way to reach out in a less aggressive and intimidating kind of way. So, if you see that person at event, you’re more likely to go up to them and feel a little bit less intimidated, you know, it’s more, it’s a lot easier if you know what they’re all about on LinkedIn. 

Would you say that LinkedIn is the most effective tool that you use? Which, which is the one that you think works best for you?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  23:50  

I think in my world because of the nature of the work that I do. LinkedIn has been the most effective for me because you can really see, I get to see basically a resume of the people who are connecting with me, so I get to see you know-how, what kind of work do they do and how would they be using this type of stuff. But I will say that Instagram is growing and I think growing and I think will become even more valuable also because of things like algorithms like sometimes people do see my LinkedIn posts, sometimes they don’t see them, things are getting buried and it’s changing every single day, whereas before, when I posted something I knew everybody was seeing it now it’s like hey did you hear about the book launch like what are you talking about, I feel like I’ve been posting about it every day so clearly people aren’t seeing that kind of stuff, whereas on LinkedIn, there’s some, or sorry on Instagram, the stories, make it easier for people to discover me because of that chronological element. So it’s more, it’s more secure knowing Okay, people are definitely seeing this one, where they don’t have that feedback from LinkedIn, the way I used to, so it’s still valuable because of its size for me but I think LinkedIn is becoming a more urgent. Instagram is becoming a more intimate space for me to create a following.

Despina Zanganas  25:01  

Now that’s so interesting, I’ve noticed the same thing like, it’s very random on LinkedIn, sometimes I will get so many people commenting on this one post, and then another post, I get like barely anybody and I’m like I don’t understand the algorithm right because I would assume that the same kind of people see it. So it’s, it’s very strange and I wish I knew

Fotini Iconomopoulos  25:20  

Well, the weird. The weird thing that the weird thing for me about LinkedIn is the posts that get the most traction, they’re the most views. I will post something about myself getting an award, and 30,000 people will view it, and hundreds of people comment and like and whatever and it’s so flattering I’m thrilled that people want that kind of information but I’m like, Guys, I give you way more valuable posts and that I tell you how to change your lives and that gets like 1000 views and you’re telling me a picture of me accepting an award is 30,000, but I think that just goes to show you people are craving that that connection in some way, yes they want the valuable posts of telling me how to change my life, but it’s like, people want to find a way to celebrate you and to connect with you I think that we are missing that so much and that that we’re really grasping at every opportunity we have to celebrate people.

Despina Zanganas  26:14  

Yeah, I’ve noticed the same thing the minute you post something positive people will comment positively on it it’s so true. 

So you and I are both Greek although I’m half Greek. Do you think that different cultures, network differently?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  26:28  

I have to believe that they do even though obviously, my experiences are limited. I mean, the running joke I think you would probably agree is Greeks demonstrate their love through food. So I do think that there’s a there’s we like in our culture we have the word philoxenia which means Philo is friend and the Xenia part refers to stranger so we are a very hospitable people in a very hospitable culture and especially when the country itself depends so much on tourism as its number one industry, you’re going to have people who are just surrounded constantly by that element of hospitality and I think that carries over to, whether you live in Greece or where you live, or abroad or if you’re a second or third generation. And so I do think that cultures who, who have a lot of specialty foods and unique dishes and I’d love to share that that I think is something that we all have in common, but I find that other cultures that I go to because I’ve been fortunate to have travelled in lots of different places. I’ve been really what felt so welcome in so many places like in Asia and in South America and so on and then there’s other places where I go. Alright, you clearly don’t like to have people who don’t speak your language, or who are not part of your, your persona. And I always make the effort to speak languages wherever I go, I’m pretty good at them but you can tell there’s a difference whether you are when they treat you whether you are native or whether you’re not, I don’t find that the UK, for example, is early specifically Britain is as hospitable as other places that I’ve been to and I spent a lot of time working in London. So I just didn’t find it quite as welcoming I did find the ex-pat community very welcoming because I think and that’s something where I feel like people are seeking out people who want to be social because the locals or the natives just aren’t, you know, in France when I spoke French I got loads of great reception, but when my friends who I was travelling with didn’t speak it, boy was there a difference in how they were treated versus how I was. So I do think that there’s, I think our Greek culture certainly is, is very different compared to others but I bet. I bet quite a few who are as hospitable like anytime I’ve travelled to Asia, whether it was Thailand or Laos or Bali, you know, those cultures as well are extremely service oriented and making people feel welcome, which I think is really cool in parts of South America, maybe it’s because I blend in a bit chameleon wherever I go. Everyone thinks I’m a local. So that could be part of the equation. So, I might have a tainted experience in that sense, but I do think people socialize a little bit differently.

Despina Zanganas  29:05  

Hmm, yeah, I’ve noticed that too. I’ve noticed when I’ve been to the UK, I’ve actually looked out for specific networking groups, and those people that I find very hospitable like they want to introduce you to people. That’s just one of the things I’ve, I’ve done just a lot of is because of Lean In I seek out different Lean In whenever I go on vacation, and they are so welcoming and may introduce me to other people but yeah I don’t want to why I’m like just a regular you know coffee shop or something like that I would say that’s not the same experience I’ve ever had.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  29:40  

Well, I would compare that to hear to like I don’t find Toronto to be a particularly hospitable city but I find Montreal to be a massively open and welcoming one. Whereas, and the same I found in Australia so in Sydney, I found it very similar to Toronto where people go about their day everyone’s polite, but no one goes out of their way to be warm and welcoming. Whereas in Melbourne, I’d be sitting at a cafe, and somebody at the table next to me would strike up a conversation, and that happened everywhere I went, people were just so much warmer, all over Melbourne and maybe it’s because the Greek population is so high there I don’t know. But it was a very different experience in moving from one city to the next as well.

Despina Zanganas  30:21  

Yeah, I remember being on the subway and this older Italian man who started speaking to me and wanted to have like this whole conversation, and it was so shocking to me because you don’t expect that, like on the TTC like, Oh, he just wanted to have a conversation. I was much younger than I was a little bit more standoffish back then, but I wish I could go back and have like a more extensive conversation with this man because it was a lot of fun. 

Fotini Iconomopoulos  30:45  

I can’t imagine standoffish Despina

Despina Zanganas  30:51  

I was, a long time ago. 

So what would be that the number one networking tip you would share with introverts?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  30:59  

I would say, first of all, introverts can rejoice because it’s totally cool to be an introvert, you can still be a very successful networker when you’re an introvert, the one thing you have to remember is to just to go in being curious, it’s not about you it’s about them. And so I think that helps to calm some of the worry for those introverts who are like, who are like me and go, I don’t want to work a room, but if I can go, what can I learn about this person, how can I be curious about this person. The fact of the matter is all you have to do is ask one question and get them to do the talking and they’re going to love you because it’s good for their ego, when someone says I want to hear more about you. And that takes the pressure and the onus off the introvert to have to do any of the work. So you can just be curious, ask one question, and the rest will start to come much more naturally.

Despina Zanganas  31:51  

Yeah, I found that the same thing, you know, just keep asking questions, and people will just respond to you and they’ll be grateful because a lot of times they’re not nervous too right so it just makes it a lot easier. What would you say the ways that networking has work for you. Do you have a favourite like networking story or a great experience that you have to share.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  32:16  

Oh God I have so many because I have met such cool people. I mean I don’t even know where to begin, because there are so many really great ones, but I mean I’ve met, business partners, I’ve met clients. I guess one of my favourites is, I had to go down to St. Louis. I used to spend a lot of time in St Louis working with a very large company down there, and this one time I was sent to Arkansas, where one of the teams was based remotely. And so somebody from St. Louis and myself were both in this office in Arkansas. And so we had to stay in the hotel and do all that kind of stuff, whereas everybody else was local, so it was just the two of us who were the out of towners. And so we spent this time in the meeting room all day and we hit it off like you know he was the director of this team that I was helping out I was scented he wasn’t exactly happy to have me there because he was expecting somebody else to come in and I was a replacement. And, but we, you know I proved myself in there and did good work and then it was like it was a very natural thing to go, we’re both going to the same hotel Should we just carpool together. Yep, no problem and that’s you know what we’re both going to have dinner. Why don’t we just have dinner together and from then on, we got on like a house on fire and I would say he’s one of my closest friends to this day and I still go to St. Louis every single year for a Christmas party and stay at, at his house and, you know, hang out with his family I’m extended family now. All because of the business networking opportunity and I don’t think it would have happened had we not gone you know what, hey we’re both staying in the hotel we’re both have to go eat. Why don’t we just do it together. And if it had if it hadn’t been for that first dinner if he had just stayed in the boardroom that day, I don’t think we would have had this friendship that many, many years later it’s been nearly a decade now, is so strong and I’m like I said I’m extended family, I, the point where I joke about him like I’m going to get your mom to like me better than she likes you. But those are moments where it’s very easy to go I’m just going to go up to my room and I’m going to order room service and I’m going to call it a night. But I really started to latch on to those opportunities those moments where you can have, you know, break bread with somebody and share a meal with somebody, and you never know what can transpire and sometimes it’s awful and you just want to go I’m going to get through this bill as quickly as possible so I can excuse myself. I feel like I’ve made a big mistake, but most of the time it’s you’ve at least learned something interesting about somebody even if you never want to see them again. There’s something unique about this potential person there’s some learning opportunity that came out of it where you go, I spot this now I’m never gonna go to dinner with somebody who has this trait ever again.

Despina Zanganas  34:58  

Yeah, well it’s kind of like dating, right. 

Fotini Iconomopoulos  35:00  

Yeah, exactly, it’s true. Yeah, I think the business world has taught me a lot about dating and vice versa. But yeah, those are the ones that I think stand out to me the most where you expect nothing but you’re like hey, we might as well. You know I could do this alone. But what could I gain from, from even eating at the hotel bar instead of eating in my room. I’ve met really interesting people in those circumstances as well.

Despina Zanganas  35:23  

I find that sometimes the most random, random of things bring amazing relationships you know like a lot of times around like, I’m not I don’t really feel like going to this networking event or I don’t exactly like you said I could just go up to my room, but you kind of push yourself, and you actually go to the hotel bar and you know just eat by yourself but you never know what’s gonna happen, like random positive things happen, not all the time, but it’s really interesting how that happens.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  35:54  

Yeah I mean it’s even those opportunities when you’re sitting on a plane and before you have a chance to put your earbuds in do you go do I have a conversation Do I say hello to my seat partner do I not, and I’ve had some really great conversations with people I’ve stayed in touch with for years as a result of meeting on a plane, and then I had those other ones where you go, Oh God, I just gonna sneak my earbuds in now and see if they’ll notice that I’m trying to tune them out or I’ll open up my laptop and stare at a blank screen in the hopes that they realize I have work to do or something.

Despina Zanganas  36:23  

So, you know, obviously this is a crazy time for us you know we’re in COVID times right now. How has COVID affected the way you network because you can’t network in the same way. Do you do it differently or has it affected anything for you?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  36:40  

It definitely has to be different because we don’t have those, those, you know, next to the catering table moments that we did before, I think that’s what people are really craving. I will say that I have to force myself to get into networking events, a lot more in the Zoom rooms and all that kind of stuff. I think as a result of it. Because there’s no warm up so much now with the whole like, you know, you show up to an event and you grab your coffee and you have a few minutes to mingle before you sit at a table at a live event, because of that kind of warm up time isn’t available to us. I find myself sticking around more at the end of zoom events. So whether it’s, you know I had blocked X amount of time for q&a After a keynote I stick around a little bit longer and I’m always finding myself answering more questions or inviting people to continue the conversation with me over on Instagram or LinkedIn and so on so I’m happy. I’m very conscious of encouraging people to find a way to stay in touch since we don’t have that physical space to share anymore. So I find the after networking is becoming more important to me as opposed to the pre stuff where you want to show up early enough to get to know a few people who are standing around the same lineup as you or you introducing yourself to the people at the table. I just find I’m, I’m more tired to after doing it on Zoom, because you’re putting in so much more effort into your face into your tone of voice, and so on. Even when you have the opportunity to do a breakout room versus some of that stuff kind of comes naturally or or is happening, whether you realize it or not just by showing up and standing tall, You know you have to make that much more effort in this virtual space to create that same impression or attract that same magnetic response from somebody, it just takes more effort in this virtual world so it definitely has changed and I do find myself forcing myself to attend more events, because it’s very easy to go nope nope nope I’m too tired. It’s been too many hours on camera or whatever. So I am conscious of making more of an effort to meet people. Then I have had to in the past because in the past, I would show up to an event with hundreds of people in a ballroom, on a regular basis as part of my job so it was easy to to meet really interesting people on a regular basis. Now, I mean, even for my book launch. I had a conversation with the publisher, and they’re like, What do you want to do for your launch we have this 1000 person webinar that we can have and I’m like, but a webinar is not intimate like in my mind, I, when I when the book was first conceived I could picture doing a launch event that is at a bookstore where people would be able to come and have wine and cheese and get to know each other and go, How do you know from Fotini and, and then I’d have a chance to work the room and sign books and chat with people and they’d be chatting with each other when I was too busy to be chatting with them. That’s just not an option, so to go all the way from that to a, an anonymous type of 1000 person format where I can’t even see who’s there and I can’t see their faces was like, No, I would rather have an intimate launch party where it’s a meeting not a webinar so even those choices are really conscious, where I tell people in my training programs, you know, I expect you to have your camera on, if you need to turn it off because a kid is zoom bombing you or whatever I’m totally going to understand. But I want to make sure we see each other as much as possible for is, is physically possible for you. Noting extenuating circumstances because everybody’s got challenges that they’re facing right now. But there definitely are differences and I’m far more aware of those differences and I have to make the effort because it’s very easy to just tap out because we’re all exhausted.

Despina Zanganas  40:44

Yeah I mean I would say the beginning of the pandemic, I just didn’t want to take part in any of those networking events, it was just so draining but you know I think we’ve accommodated we’ve gotten used to it a little bit more so. And I miss networking, I, It’s funny I do you feel exhausted after those zoom calls mega networking events, but there’s also a bit of me that feels energized to because I’ve met some people and I’ve had some conversations. And when you take that offline and have like a one on one Zoom meeting. It does feel a little bit more intimate because you have a little bit more dedicated time with that person. So, I mean it’s changed tremendously for me too and I do miss the in-person stuff. 

So, let me pivot a little bit you know this podcast is about women and networking. How do women, networking, more inclusive for women and how do we support women at networking events?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  41:42 

Oh, that’s a, that’s an interesting one. So, women naturally are the nurturers, are warmer like this is part of our brain composition and so on so you would think that networking would be easy for us for that reason. What I find, however, is too often women will tap out because they don’t want to bother somebody, or they don’t want to be a burden to somebody. And so the way I would say to help people is to invite them in. First of all for you to consciously say and I think you’re brilliant at this just be not like to consciously go, hey, Despina I want to introduce you to my friend so and so, like, give them an olive branch help them with that start is part of it if you’re there if you’re in the group, look for somebody that you can invite into the conversation, I think that’s a really easy win for women. But the other thing that I’ve realized is has become even more important, especially in a virtual world, is finding a networking or icebreaker opportunity so, previously I’ve been involved in. I know you’re super, you’ve been super involved obviously in the Lean In Canada  world, I’ve been involved in something called the network of executive women which is a nonprofit, so I’ve been helping run events with them for years and years, and we consciously have been trying at live events to create some type of game, or write something on your name tag that shares a nugget of information with somebody or go find somebody with the same colour name tag as you or something like that because, by creating an activity, it takes some of that burden or, you know, I don’t want to be annoying to somebody, we’re all signing up for that activity when we show up. So we’re all opening the door to talking to each other. And now in the Zoom world, I find that’s even more important. So, when you’re doing those types of things it’s the facilitator can create opportunities for that magic to happen, or I always have something, when I’m anytime I’m starting an event I have something on the screen or in the Zoom chat going while we’re waiting, tell us in the chat, for me it’s what feeling comes to mind when you hear the word negotiation. And that starts getting people to open up a little bit more and that starts really interesting conversations in the chat before I even open my mouth and start sharing anything with them about my keynote or whatever it is. So there are ways that we can try to facilitate some conversations for people so that they don’t feel like the burden, and it makes it easier for them to want to open up and actually share something once the sharing has begun. Naturally, everybody else will want to jump on that opportunity but what can you do to help break the ice. In those moments, and as facilitators at those events I think part of the onus is on us. But the other onus is on you know if you are somebody who is more comfortable, What can you do to pull somebody else into the conversation, the same way that if you have made it to the boardroom If you’ve broken through the glass ceiling, send the elevator back down so that somebody else can come up. What are you doing what opportunities are you creating to allow others to come in what introductions, can you facilitate. I think all of us have a responsibility to do that and I guarantee you when you do, it’ll come back to you tenfold.

Despina Zanganas  44:51 

Hmm, I’ve noticed that too. You were talking about facilitators, one of the things that I used to do when I was like organizing the events I had about four or five women at an event, seek out people who were by themselves, you know, just to talk to them and introduce them to people so they were kind of the connectors that were part of my team, and you know, actively introduced people to one another. Because, you know, even some really successful people are still nervous to work around in room so I think it’s really important to help facilitate people,

Fotini Iconomopoulos  45:30 

I think that’s a brilliant idea, it’s like you have those seeds planted that will help make the evening a little bit more enjoyable for everybody.

Despina Zanganas  45:40 

Mm hmm. Yeah, cuz you never know who they’re going to meet right and, Yeah, exactly. It makes it more enjoyable. 

You know I really enjoyed reading the part about body language, and, you know, pay attention to the sound of your voice, and I really see a connection between networking and negotiation and all that. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  45:59

Yeah, body language is so important when we are talking about whether it’s negotiation or building relationships because that’s all negotiation is and that’s why I feel like negotiation and networking go hand in hand. You are sending so many messages before you even open your mouth, you are, whether you intend it that way or not people are reading the things that you’re doing so, you know, most people I think can equate having folded arms as being closed, that may or may not be the case maybe folded arms is just an easier posture for you and would be more comfortable for you, but the reality is somebody is reading that very likely as being closed off so if I see you at a networking event and or an opportunity and I see we’ve closed arms I’m probably not going to approach in a negotiation, the same way if I see that I get it, I’m going to think you’re probably not a very collaborative person. So what can we do differently that would want to invite somebody into our space or into this conversation. And so things like, you know, not having the closed arms having your hands open palms open tell us that I’m more open, having your hands at navel, height, as opposed to down by your sides doing nothing like dead arms, those things that are things that tell us that I’m inviting you into this conversation. By having your posture and your spine nice and straight versus curved, you’re saying, I’m confident versus I’m feeling really intimidated right now. So again it’s also thinking about who do I want to approach in this room. Is it somebody who looks like they are really timid and scared, well that’s going to be a really difficult conversation I’m going to be pulling teeth to get something out of that person, or is it this the person who looks like they walk in and they own the joint, type of thing, who’s going to seem much more charismatic, the person who’s smiling a lot more and whose eyes are smiling, it’s not just like only smiling with the lower half of your face. When you’re smiling more you look more appealing, obviously you look more inviting. So we can smile when we’re talking even or during those pauses when you’re engaging in some way. Those are all the things that can tell us before we even have a chance to get to know you, that you are somebody that I want to talk to, and even the sound of your voice. You know, are you this. Are you this type of person who does this inflection thing like this all the time? Or are you somebody who makes a statement there, you know, there’s things that are inviting and there’s things that are grading, and I’m not saying these things you’re pointing them out because I want you to be inauthentic. I’m saying, what is the impression that you are making and what kind of impression do you want to be making so it’s about bringing your best self forward to this conversation, the one that you want people to see first, it’s not about creating a persona, because I know way too many men who puff out their chest and start going I’m going to go into my deep presenter mode voice now because I think this sounds much more credible, and people can see right through that, but it’s about going, I put it in your mind and tell yourself, I am curious, and how can I convey that curiosity, is it with a smile is it with a look on my face. You don’t even have to necessarily think about what should I be doing. It’s about having the mentality and the rest will follow. If you think I am happy to be here you’re naturally going to start smiling, as opposed to forcing a smile. If you think I’m naturally curious your head might cocked to the side and go, Hmm, what does this person have to say as opposed to forcing your head to the side and making it look like you have a crick in your neck. So it starts with the mentality, and then it’ll start to come up naturally but with body language. What we do know is that you can change your brain so Amy Cuddy wrote a book called presence which I love and I quote, and I referenced it in my own book, and she says, Don’t fake it till you make it, fake it till you become it. So when you take on and more confident posture, you’re going to become that more confident person and it’s going to help you to conquer some of those fears of networking and make you want to engage with people, and there’s really interesting studies that even tell us about mindset. So, there was a some really cool negotiation studies where one of them, they took people to two groups and they made one group watch the movie psycho first and then the other group didn’t watch the movie and they sent them into negotiations, the group who watched the movie psycho who was, who would declare themselves as more anxious, ended up getting deals that were 12%, less financially attractive than the neutral negotiators. So you can imagine if you’re getting worse deals in negotiation. It probably has an impact on how you’re showing up, and how you’re showing up matters when you are networking with somebody when you’re getting to know somebody when they’re going do I want to get to know this person does this person look confident or they look like someone who’s going to be a real drag on my time here, so it’s about starting with the right mentality. And there’s one more study I’m going to share with you. So there was a study that done that. They told people to sing a song in front of a crowd, this is A Harvard study and the song was Don’t Stop Believin and. And they, they put them before they did it they put them in three groups and the first group was told to declare, I am anxious. The second group was told to say, I am excited, whether they were not. And the third group was told to say nothing at all and then they went into song, according to a computer that measured their volume and pitch. Those who told themselves that they were excited outperformed the other two groups. And they not only outperformed them on this, you know, singing test they also outperform them on a math test, and a speech test, they were perceived as more persuasive, more confident and more persistent, and that’s all from doing one little exercise that’s from telling yourself I am excited. So if you are cringing at the idea of networking. What if you could just go I’m excited to meet somebody new, and then your body language will start to change and your mind will start to change you can change the output of your brain, you can change your cognitive abilities, just by changing your mindset. And so we use that in negotiation all the time and I think the same is true when you’re talking about getting to know somebody or networking with someone.

Despina Zanganas  52:00  

Yeah, you know, that, that speaks to me, you know, whenever I’m about to give a talk, you won’t see me for two minutes just before the talk, you were talking about me, Amy Cuddy, so I run to the washroom and I do a power pose, in the stalls. Because I completely feel the difference I suddenly get this rush of like confidence when I do the Power Poses just before I’m about to give a talk, so I mean I never really thought about doing it when I’m about to enter a room and network but I think you’re gonna start applying that because it absolutely works. You know, I’ve seen it for myself, 

Anytime you talk about negotiation, you talk about the pause button I mean, I’ve been to so many of your talks and you know, your seminars and all that, and that’s a consistent theme that you have throughout, How would you apply that pause button to networking.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  53:03  

Yeah, so the origin of the pause button. It’s the number one takeaway that people get out of, whether it’s the book or, or the workshops or the MBA lectures or the keynotes, it’s the number one thing that people remember and the reason I talk about it is when you are nervous when you are facing a stressful situation. And obviously in my world, oftentimes a stressful situation is, negotiation, we go back to this primitive caveman or cavewoman mentality where you have a physiological response to stress. Back then, it would allow you to run like hell to get away from your physical threat if it was a sabre-toothed tiger or something. Today we don’t have those same physical threats very often but we have psychological threats, and those are the moments where you’re facing an intense negotiation or maybe you got to get on stage or maybe you need to meet somebody at a networking event, maybe you have to introduce yourself and you’re super nervous. So those are those same moments where you have this physiological response where your heart might start to pump a little bit faster, and your breathing might start to get a little bit more shallow and your palms might start to get sweaty or your face might start to get flash, all of that as a is a response to this stressful trigger, and so for most people I can assume walking into a room and saying the word networking is a stressful trigger. And so what I talk about is using what I call your mental pause button. And that is whatever coping mechanism works for you, for most people that I talked to they start adapting what they, what we call meditative breathing where you breathe in for four. Hold for six, and out for eight, for others it could be that moment of just telling yourself. I’m excited. In the networking world it could be. I’m excited to learn something about someone or I am curious about this person that I’m going to talk to. And when you can take that moment and reframe things, and that’s all the pause button is it’s taking a moment to buy yourself some time for that rational thought to come back in, and as a result, your brain will start to work more effectively. So it’s totally okay to take a pause to breathe, it’s okay to take a pause to think about what we want to come out of your mouth, but we make the assumption that being in silence is going to make me look stupid. In fact, reading off your mouth is more likely to make you look stupid than going. That’s an interesting question. I need a second to think about that.  Or just being positive.

54:30-54:55

Despina Zanganas  55:19  

Yeah, I found the exact same thing. People want to fill up that silence but when you actually pause. It makes you actually look more intelligent, that’s what I found since I started doing that since I learned that in your, talks. It’s, it’s helped a lot. I’m sure you’ve gotten the same feedback from other people too.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  55:41

I have and it’s wonderful to hear because you know when you are taking a moment to think about what I what you’re going to share with me, I’m going, Oh, that’s great. She is taking time to add value to me she doesn’t want to waste my time with verbal diarrhea. I feel acknowledged, and I feel like I’m on the edge of my seat anticipating what’s going to come out as opposed to if she’s still thinking and talking at the same time, what is it she’s trying to say to me right now. So you can, and I talked about this a lot too is you pause to actually speed things up, you’re going to be far more effective by taking them on to think about it before it comes out of your mouth versus thinking and talking at the same time actually happens a lot slower.

Despina Zanganas  55:49  

Interesting, I never really thought of it that way but that totally makes sense. 

So, um, I wanted to ask you as this question. I ask everybody because everybody has some pet peeves, what do you think are the faux pas or pet peeves that happened when networking.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  56:39 

Oh, I mean, I think it’s spending the entire time talking about yourself. because that demonstrates that you aren’t curious about anybody else, and oftentimes that comes from nerves too because people just don’t know what to do. But there are many times where it just comes from narcissism. So if you are spending the entire time talking about you, and that means there’s not enough room for me to engage in that conversation, and if you are not asking me questions, then I am losing interest in this because I want to feel like knowledge at some point. So I’d say that that’s the big one if you’re sucking up all of the air in the room if you’re doing all of the talking, then it’s not a two-way exchange anymore, and it just feels contrived or it feels annoying. That’s the major one that comes to mind whether it’s in a professional networking environment or even a date, you know,

Despina Zanganas  57:30  

I was thinking the same thing

Fotini Iconomopoulos  57:39  

Yeah I’ve had plenty of instances where I’ve gone on a date with a man, and they want to go on a second date and it’s no surprise like yeah, because you spent the entire time talking about yourself I’m good at asking people questions for a living, and you didn’t spend any time asking me about anything and part of that is on me to make sure that I insert myself into the conversation, but if there’s no room to insert me into the conversation, then no, we’re not going to be a match because you clearly only have an interest in one person and that’s you.

Despina Zanganas  58:06  

Yeah, absolutely I 100% agree. So anyone who’s listened to my podcast knows that I love introducing people to one another and they know that I like to play this networking game where I ask my guests if there’s anyone alive that they always wanted to meet and hopefully one of the listeners has a connection with that person or know somebody who has a connection with that person. So I’d like to pose a question to you Fotini. Is there anyone that you’ve always wanted to meet?

Fotini Iconomopoulos  19:11  

So I have two one is indeed a mega-celebrity because She’s been on my mind. She’s been on my mind since I started writing the book because I quote her daughter in the book. And that’s Chrissy Teegan because I just think she’s freaking hilarious, and I quote her daughter. Daughter, what we call she called the candy trials. That’s like the most pure negotiation there is, I’d say, less mega famous but still pretty damn famous especially in Canada is Chrystia Freeland. I think she’s a negotiation freakin rock star. I followed really closely the NAFTA negotiations, a few years ago I wrote a little case study on it, and I just think the way she handles herself with such poise and presence is very cool. And then when you actually get to read her bio you go wait she speaks How many languages, and she did what now when she lived over in London, I just think she’s such a fascinating person, um, you know, oftentimes when you, when you read about famous people, like when you read their biographies and stuff like that, like, you know I could easily say the Michelle Obama’s and the Oprah Winfrey’s and all that kind of stuff, but what did you read their bios, you’re like, I don’t know what else I’m going to ask you, because I know everything I need to know. But the Chrystia Freeland’s of the world, I just feel like we could talk about so many different subjects and never run out of something to say, because not only did she ever really cool experiences she just seems like a really down to earth and intelligent person, and that intelligent just like is so attractive and charismatic to me.

Despina Zanganas  1:01:10  

Well that one might be achievable I’m thinking, you know, there’s so many people in our network that are either politicians or know politicians or something like that so let’s see what we can do. Let’s see if there’s anybody out there who actually knows Chrystia Freeland there, it was how to get access to her, and maybe we can introduce you, that would be super cool. Yeah, I’ve

Fotini Iconomopoulos  1:00:37 

got my publicist on the hunt to try and get a copy of my book in our hands. So, this podcast.

Despina Zanganas  1:01  

Hopefully Hopefully. Okay so now let’s go to questions from the listener, so I’ve got a question here from Carrie, a colleague is always asking me to introduce her to people in my network. I was happy to do it the first few times, but now I feel like it’s getting too much. Also she doesn’t reciprocate. What should I do, and I’m thinking of this like from an negotiation perspective like how, what advice can we give her.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  1:01  

Yeah, I think it’s important that she points out that this person doesn’t reciprocate. Because there’s takers and there’s givers and there’s matchers in the world that’s Adam Grants kind of way of summing it up, And this person sounds like a taker. And what you can say is you can help them understand why, why it’s a challenge. And so, you can say something to the effect of, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to exhaust your network or I’m sure you wouldn’t want to burden your network, wink wink, nudge nudge, That’s a passive-aggressive way of telling them, I’m trying not to exhaust my network, you can still be quite blunt and say, Look, I have this network of people and I want to make sure that we stay tight and I want to make sure that they stay engaged with me and they don’t feel like I’m constantly farming them out to folks, I get a lot of these requests and trying to be measured in it. You are somebody who has been benefiting quite a bit from my network and whilst I’m happy to do that I need to put on the brakes to make sure that I’m not damaging any relationships in the process because if I damage them. Of course that’s not going to help either one of us. So, if there’s something I can do in the future, maybe we just need to take a break for now, that’s how I would, that’s how I would be doing it like make them understand the why, and you don’t have to say, because you’re greedy and I don’t want to do something for you it’s like by going, hey if I damage this network, it’s not going to be useful to you anymore, but truly it’s because it’s also not going to be useful to me any more than to harm to me, I just wanted to put that in her mind. Like in my workshops and in the book, I talk a lot about thinking things from the other person’s perspective. So, what about this would be beneficial to her, how would this serve her needs and serving her needs means keeping your network, robust, and keeping your network, wanting to stay engaged. And if you go look I’ve been tapping into them just too much, and you’ve been the beneficiary. I need to make sure that I’m not overdoing it so that when the time comes, again and I do want to engage with them. They’re not avoiding me because I’ve just been introducing them too much.

Despina Zanganas  1:03: 06

Right, I think that’s great advice. Has that ever happened to you before 

Fotini Iconomopoulos  1:03: 10

100% You know, I have a really great network of people and I, you know, now that I’ve been doing this book promotion stuff, I’m always hesitant to ask people for favours. And what I realize it’s not necessarily a favour if you’re giving somebody an early preview of a book it’s a gift because anytime I have sent out something to my C suite network and went hey I’d love to get your thoughts on this. If you have a testimonial or something like that, I’d love to know what you think of it and every single response I’ve gotten has been, I’m so thrilled to read your book I’m so excited to be an early reader it’s a gift and not an ask, even though I know it’s an ask but I forget that they’re engaged with me for a reason, they’re a fan for a reason they’re there’s somebody might who wants to be an active member of my network for a reason. But I’m also very protective of them for that reason too so anybody in my network knows that if I’m introducing you, it’s because I believe in you and I don’t think this is going to be a waste of time for you I think there’s going to be value for both of you. And so I will tell people flat out like you know what I have to be really careful about who my introduce, I don’t think it’s the right time for this person. I don’t know that you’re going to get the benefit of it if I introduce you right now I know they’re overwhelmed or whatever it is sometimes I’ll protect you know the person who’s asking because you don’t want to say, No, you’re going to be a burden on them, that’s not helpful to anybody. But I am very protective of my network and so I know that they are appreciative when I do reach out to them and when I do make those, those introductions, and I do them all the time because sometimes it’s just going, Hey, you’re really cool, and you’re really cool and I don’t know what could happen but something is gonna happen when the two of you meet, and I love, they have those connections, too.

Despina Zanganas  1:04: 52

That’s what I’ve heard from most of the people who’ve been on my podcast, they actually, get a thrill from connecting the right people together, you know, it just makes you feel so good when you see something blossom out of a connection that you’ve made to a few people, and also I wanted to say I was really grateful. I know it isn’t an ask but I felt super grateful when you provided me with an advanced copy of your book I was so excited to read it and like I said, I was like, I need to read it before our interview because want to make sure I understand, even though a lot of the concepts I’ve heard you say so many times I just wanted to make sure that I understood everything and, you know, was prepared for this. So, thank you so much. And that actually brings us to the close of the podcast.  I want to just thank you so much for being here. It was such a pleasure to talk to you and yeah thank you so much.

Fotini Iconomopoulos  1:05: 43 

Well, it’s always a pleasure to talk to you and I think it’s so incredible, the gifts that you have and I actually I don’t know that it’s a gift so much because I think you’ve been working on it for a really long time, I suspect, only because I know how interested you are in personal development. So I just think it’s really cool to watch what you do and how you do it in connecting with individuals and then connecting other people together as well. I’ve seen the network that you’ve created firsthand and the audience’s that you’ve managed to put together as a result of it and so I’m thrilled that this podcast is even happening and I’m thrilled to be a part of it.

Despina Zanganas  1:06:22  

Thank you, thank you so much and I hope we get to connect you with Chrystia Freeland

Fotini Iconomopoulos  1:06:24 

Fingers crossed 

Despina Zanganas  1:06:25  

Thanks.

SAY LESS, GET MORE: UNCONVENTIONAL NEGOTIATION TECHNIQUES TO GET WHAT YOU WANT

by Fotini Iconomopoulos

Women’s Association’s Mentioned in this Episode

Lean In Canada

Network of Executive Women