Episodes

Episode 8 finds me chatting with Dr. Jean Kim, Co-Founder of Live Your Potential Women’s Career & Development Program. In 2017, we were introduced by a mutual connection, and we’ve since become invaluable pieces of each other’s network. We share a deep respect for one another, and have committed to (finally!) meeting in person after COVID. Today, we’ll be busting some networking myths — to tune in to find out why extroverts aren’t necessarily good at networking… and more!

Show Transcript

Each Connect and Bloom episode is transcribed using Otter.ai. While our team is busy correcting typos where possible, it’s inevitable that some mistakes will be missed. (We’re only human!) With this in mind, please forgive any errors when reviewing transcripts, and feel free to report any issues here.

Despina Zanganas  0:42  

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for joining me on the Connect and Bloom Podcast. My Guest today is Dr. Jean Kim.

Let me tell you a bit about Dr. Kim. She is the Co-Founder of the LYP Women’s Leadership & Career Development Program; a program dedicated to empowering women to live their fullest potential. As a Global Communication Strategist and Award-Winning Educator, over the last 21 years, she has taught professional communication skills and public speaking, among others, at universities in Canada, the U.S., and Korea. She has also conducted leadership training at organizations such as KPMG, Ryerson University, and the World Bank. Jean has built a strong and supportive global network, having lived in Seoul, Hong Kong, London, New York, Honolulu, Tokyo, Paris, Vancouver, and Toronto.

Dr. Kim, thank you so much for joining me today!

Jean Kim  6:24  

Thank you so much for inviting me Despina, I am so delighted and humbled to be joining your list of amazing women who have been guests on this podcast and congratulations first of all, on Connect and bloom, I’m so happy for you. I couldn’t be more and more ecstatic for you. Thank you so much for having me. 

Despina Zanganas  1:58

Well thank you, Jean. So this is a question I ask all of my guests. How did we originally Connect? 

Jean Kim  2:05

I definitely remember how we met, we connected through our mutual colleague Cindy Stradling whom I admire and respect very much. She in 2017, she introduced me to you, as a potential speaker for Lean In Canada which of course you co-founded, she spoke at the event that she thought I would be a potentially good fit, as well as a speaker. I remember at that time,, the topic that we had initially discussed it didn’t work out, it was postponed for a later date. And then when you did invite me again for another topic. I had to politely decline. And I didn’t tell you this at that time Despina but I was actually pregnant. It was my first trimester and so I had to cancel a lot of things that were going on in my life at that time because I was, you know so heavily nauseated all the time. And so, yeah, but that is definitely how we met and I remember very well.

Despina Zanganas  3:05

And this is actually the first time we met in person or not in person but seeing each other’s faces. We’ve talked on the phone I think a couple of times and definitely lots of emails, and you know you’ve shared my story on your blog. We’ve connected in so many different ways we just never actually seen each other’s faces so it’s wonderful to actually see you now. 

Jean Kim  3:30  

And you definitely have the same energy, in person or even as virtually as we did over the phone because I remember when we spoke on the phone I just remember thinking, this woman is so she had this positive energy to her, so warm and welcoming so which I really appreciated And you’re exactly the same person. In-person right now, even if over the computer screen.

Despina Zanganas  3:52

Aww, thanks that’s great to hear. So why don’t we kick it off with our first question? So tell me a little bit about your business or the work you do and where networking comes into play. 

Jean Kim  4:02 

Absolutely. As you introduce in my bio, I am the co-founder of LYP women’s leadership, and career development program, LYP stands for Live Your Potential, and we are an organization dedicated to empowering women to live their full potential through our various events and programs. And when you gave this question to me, it was a wonderful opportunity to really reflect on the role that networking has played throughout this particular business of LYP and I realized in so many ways, networking has played a crucial role in LYP. Number one, I met my amazing co-founder Lilit Simonyan at a networking event, we built this organic beautiful relationship since the first time we met, and before we knew it, we joined forces to create LYP we both jointly birth to it. And of course, as I say, the rest is history. But in terms of the program itself, we believe so strongly in the power of networking, the importance of networking in anybody’s career and leadership journey so it’s, first of all, it’s part of one of the modules that we offer during the program, but it’s also one of the core pillars of the LYP brand itself, which are clarity confidence and community. Clarity to know who you are, how you add value for confidence to ask for what you deserve, and last but not least community being surrounded by like-minded women who support you, but also hold one another accountable, and because we believe so strongly in this, we focus a lot of our efforts on opportunities for our program alumni to connect with other women who are not just taking the program with their immediate cohort but outside of that as well we call them the LYP alumni or sisters so lots of opportunities to connect with our fellow sisters, and also events to connect with senior professionals outside of their industry, people who have a lot more experience a lot more wisdom, perhaps, in terms of leadership and career development journeys, so that’s definitely one thing that we emphasize throughout the program and our brand itself. And definitely last but not least, Lilit and I, we are constantly reminded of the importance of networking through the amazing support that we get from our LYP community and our LYP network in general. Incidentally, she and I moved to Toronto around the same time, and at that time, we independently worked to build our own community, our own network. In this new city that we moved to. And of course, after our LYP was created we collectively put in the effort to build relationships strengthen relationships for our business. And over the years we’ve really come to realize that our network is really everything they’ve shown us so much support believing in our mission embracing and celebrating us. And it ranges from, for instance volunteering to speak at our events and like you Despina so generously sharing your time and wisdom to be featured in our blog articles, referring women to our programs, and even individual donors who have wanted to support us by funding women in our communities who are deserving but under-resourced and privileged so they offer scholarships that women can take part in our program. And so we know very well that we could not have come this far, you cannot have built this network, this community, this brand, that is LYP without the support of our networks network, our network and our networking efforts, it’s, it’s been everything.

Despina Zanganas  7:43  

That’s amazing. Yeah, I remember I think the topic that I wanted you to speak about was networking, if I remember correctly because I remember going on your website you had all these modules about networking and teaching people how to network. Right and I think it’s, it’s amazing that that’s how you met Lilit, you know, through networking, it’s, I don’t think people realize how critical I mean that’s how I met my co-founders at lean in, it was actually through networking on LinkedIn. So, it was amazing. So, what do you actually think makes a successful networker, 

Jean Kim  8:17 

I think, in order for me to answer this question, I have to offer my own definition of what networking is, as I think at the end of the day, networking is about building, human relationships, and what makes a successful networker, if you see networking from that perspective is someone who values human relationships which includes building new relationships but also nurturing and strengthening existing relationships I think that is so crucial because if you don’t work on nurturing and strengthening existing relationships you will have, you may have a lot of acquaintances in your life, because you’ve accumulated that many number of people that you know, but you may not have true advocates and allies, as part of your network. So I think somebody who understands that networking is about. It’s no different from any other human relationship, putting in the effort. So yes, absolutely, it’s important to create new relationships but to also nurture and strengthen the ones that already exist. 

So that’s definitely one aspect of a successful networker. So another aspect of what I believe makes a successful networker is having a clear understanding of your personal brand and communicating that message with clarity consistency and confidence, and I know some people may be asking, Okay, well then, how do I figure out what my personal brand is. And I always encourage women, in particular, to think about these three questions when it comes to your personal brand. How do I want to be remembered? Who do you want to be known by and what do you want to be known for. And so how do I want to remember just think of, for instance, a few adjectives that you would like people to describe you with when they think of you as a person. What do I want to be known for what are some of the strengths and skills that you want to demonstrate as an individual, that really speaks to your brand. and lastly, who do I want to be known by, who is the audience who is the community that you want to serve that you want to be known by in terms of your brand message in terms of your strength and your skills and really speak to those people that you want to target as your audience in the community. And I think the reason why I emphasize personal branding and the importance of communicating that message is how well or how poorly you network is also I think it says a lot about your personal brand as well. So, going back to the question of what makes a successful networker, that is, again, number one, understanding that human relationships are at the core of building our network and number two, knowing your personal brand and communicating that message in the ways you network as well. 

Despina Zanganas  11:13  

Yeah, I love that you brought up that point about personal branding because I think some people just kind of, you know, throw things up in the air and hope it sticks right and no real focus, and I think that can actually damage you in the end, so it’s really important to kind of take a look at yourself and like you said, What do you want to be known for and all that it’s so such an important point.

Jean Kim  11:34  

Exactly because let’s say you want to be remembered as somebody that’s reliable. And then you say to somebody that you met Oh I’ll follow up with you I’ll provide you with this information or I’ll make that introduction for you and then two weeks later they still haven’t heard from you. There is no way that person’s going to remember you as somebody that’s reliable. And so, I am a firm believer how you do anything is how you do everything, so make sure you are mindful and aware of your personal brand, and, and communicated with clarity consistency and confidence,

Despina Zanganas  12:04  

Yeah, that’s such an important point. Um, I’m actually wondering so were you always good at networking as you know, you know, you’re so great at it now and you teach it and all that stuff but let’s say when you first started out like you know and you’re maybe 18 or 20 or something like that. Did you were you good at it?

Jean Kim  12:24  

This is a really great question because it really made me reflect on my life. And as you introduced in my, as you mentioned in my bio I lived in all these different countries since childhood, nine different cities seven different countries, which required me to move from different schools, different countries make new friends, new teachers, new neighbours. And at that time, I navigated it, I managed it really well. I’m not saying it was easy, but I did it really well with the help of my sisters and my family. And I really give credit to teenage Jean especially because you know as a teenager, it’s so awkward being a teenager itself, and then to make friends in a new country in a new environment where you also didn’t even speak the language that was a huge deal and I really want to pat myself on the back for, for those days. However having said that, when I look back on my early 20s mid-20s especially what came so naturally, as, as a younger Jean. It was rather awkward, it was quite awkward for 20 Something changed. And I know the reason why it was because I was insecure myself. And I think many women probably can relate to this. I certainly see this a lot in the women that I work with the LYP program in our 20s we are often filled with lots of self-doubt, lots of insecurities, and I certainly was not an exception. So I remember going to these academic conferences as a grad student at that time, and I was so so intimidated by these big-name scholars, I had no idea what to say to them I was, I was like, Oh, well they even care about what I have to say, I was really good at chit-chatting and small talk, but that was about it like nothing really bloomed your podcast name is connect and bloom like nothing really bloomed or blossom out of that relationship and I think it was because I was trying so much to impress and not really asking good questions I wasn’t really, it was just I was filled with intimidation and insecurities, basically, and I don’t think it was until later in my late 20s, early 30s that I started gaining more confidence in myself as a woman as a professional as an educator, that I started asking much stronger questions and leading with curiosity genuine curiosity and that’s when the stronger relationships grow.

Despina Zanganas  14:54  

Yeah, that’s such an important point, you know, leaving with curiosity. I’ve heard that so many times it’s really about being curious about the other person as opposed to talking about ourselves I think maybe in our 20s we, we kind of just talk about ourselves the whole time and realize that that kind of bores people sometimes like just want to learn about other people. One of the things you said, you know, you talked about how you lived in so many different countries. Do you think that people in different countries network differently?

Jean Kim  15:31  

That’s a great question I think fundamentally when it comes to the definition I mentioned earlier, that people are all trying to build human relationships, or try to make connections I don’t think that’s different. However, there is a difference in the sense that, where I come from originally, my ethnic background is Korean, Korea and we don’t really have events, solely dedicated for the purpose of networking. So, here in the North American context, we have a lot of events that literally the title is networking event right. And I think in many other parts of the world, those events don’t necessarily exist yes you do go to whatever events, or like a conference or whatever and you do network, but then that title of networking event may not necessarily exist. I remember having a Student a participant come fly all the way from Japan who took my program as she said, this whole concept of networking Jean is so new to me, it’s fascinating, but it’s also very foreign because I don’t remember ever attending an event in Japan that was really titled networking. And so, for those people who have come to North America for work or they immigrated here or for school. I think sometimes that concept of networking could be foreign to them. Because of the title attached to the event, even though they may not realize that, that they are actually engaging in networking, because they are fundamentally building relationships with people, and, and it could happen anywhere, at a gym at a grocery store, at work, but because of that specific title of networking, it could be a relatively foreign concept for some.

Despina Zanganas  17:20  

Yeah, you know, it’s such a great point because I remember I was in Greece like several years ago and I was at a cafe with my cousin and I was telling her about networking and I was like, yeah, there’s all these great people because when I was there I just reached out to a bunch of people I looked them up online and I was like hey let’s go for coffee, and I was telling her about it and she’s like, we don’t do that here. You know that’s how she was actually looking for a job so I was giving her advice on like you know ways to do that and she’s like, No, no, that’s just not something we do. But I think once you explain to people how it’s a little bit different, right, like, take out the word networking and say you’re just asking somebody for coffee. It’s a little bit different right it doesn’t have the connotation I think networking, the word scares people 

Jean Kim  18:08  

Oh my goodness, absolutely I think some people just cringe at the word networking because, number one for some people that could seem opportunistic, that it’s about selling yourself about marketing yourself or that it’s only for people who are social butterflies and if they don’t, if they don’t feel that they are a social butterfly they might be intimidated by it but like you said, I think it’s, it’s about community building if you exchange the word networking for building community I think it would have a much more positive effect, and people won’t be so turned off by it or intimidated by it because who doesn’t want to build a community for themselves.

Despina Zanganas  18:45  

So a yeah I think I think that’s great. That actually kind of leads us to the next question. So, what are the biggest misconceptions about networking?

Jean Kim  18:57  

So, the biggest misconceptions about networking, I can think of several but I’ll only mention three today because I can go on and on about this. 

Number one, that you have to be attending a networking event, in order to be networking. You and I, like we said this earlier on we never met in person. Right, but we still network throughout the years and I’m so grateful for you are still, I consider such a valuable part of our network and we never literally met. And so yes, number one, that you have to attend a networking event to network no, you can network at a gym at a grocery store you can anywhere, parent-teacher conference, you name it.

Secondly, The goal. Another misconception is the goal of networking is to market and sell yourself. Therefore, it is for people that are opportunistic, I think, yes, you can come across opportunities, career advancement. As a result of networking, but I think those who have results such as those opportunities. They make the effort to build those relationships, they put in the time and effort and energy to, to get to know the other person to build those relationships to strengthen their relationships and I think that we need to give those people credit for that because nothing comes for free. 

And last but not least, I mentioned this earlier as well. When I define networking is, I think, a misconception of networking is that it’s to make new connections, then so much effort is put on, meeting new people going out there and making new, new connections, and yes, of course, it is absolutely important. But, again, if you’re only focusing on building new connections, then you will have this huge network of acquaintances, but not so many allies and advocates and you really do want to have those advocates and allies in your life.

Despina Zanganas  21:07  

Right, you know, those, those points are so important you were talking about you know being opportunistic, like a lot of people think that but it’s not necessarily that I don’t know about you but for me I get so much joy out of meeting somebody and then introducing them to someone else in my network that needs them, right, like, so I never actually benefit. Although like it’s great, you know, warms my heart to see people connecting, but it might never actually come to me ever in my life but I just I love that and that’s one of the reasons that I see too.

Jean Kim  21:44  

And I think that also says a lot about who you are as a brand Despina because in the process of you, connecting others. I will always remember you as the connector, as this amazing woman who puts in her time and effort to connect others and to support others and be of value to others. And that speaks volumes about who you are as a person and as your brand. And so earlier on, you talked about the younger Jean. I would tell younger Jean. Don’t worry so much about talking so much like to impress with words, especially if those words are talking about you and how great you are asking these questions being of service to others listening attentively and leading with genuine curiosity I think those things will speak so much louder than words. And you may not be seeing much in words but you will be seeing so much about who you are. And so, I think you need to take the pressure off yourself to impress so much, and with the words that, that you communicate with because action does speak louder than words. And if I could also add one more thing Despina I think, especially for women and women from certain cultures, especially Asian culture which is where I’m from. There is a hesitancy to talk about yourself because we’re brought up with the cultural mindset with the value that humility is his best. And I absolutely agree being humble is an amazing trait. And so you don’t want to talk so much about yourself and you associate networking with having to talk about who you are and, and perhaps selling and marketing yourself. And if that is not what you feel comfortable with doing and of course there may be an opportunity there may be times when you must do that I think especially at the job interview, but that’s a whole different topic. I think what women, we are really great at is being a champion for others. We are still great at raising each other up, we may cringe at talking about ourselves, but we’re really great at talking, great about others, especially if it’s another woman that we want to support, and so is that as you take that wing woman with you to a networking event, take her and be each other, advocate, each other’s allies, and talk about each other in front of whoever it is that you’re conversing with. And so that takes that cringe factor out of talking about yourself if that’s something that is uncomfortable for you and instead, You’re talking about the other person, and they’re talking about you, so it’s kind of like a win-win. 

Despina Zanganas  24:24  

I love that! That’s the first time I’ve ever actually heard somebody say that you know like if you’re so terrified about talking about yourself, bring somebody who has, you know, I got to say my best friend she like sings my praises all the time, you know, and it’s just, and sometimes you’re like really you think that about me like you know, it just always feels so, so great I think that’s an amazing point, I love that. 

So moving on, um, you know, you are such a great networker you made so many great connections, is there one that really stands out to you as really your favorite networking story or something that happened that really just changed everything because of a person you met

Jean Kim  25:09  

When I was heavily pregnant with my son, my husband and I, we attended a prenatal class with other couples who were expecting around the same time as us. A couple of months later, just the mommies we attended a post-natal class. And at that time we as first-time moms, We were sharing our vulnerabilities or challenges how sleep deprived, we were an all those things and I really bonded with a couple of moms there. And in the process of just having organic conversations we talked about our professional lives, what we do for a living, our passion, our interests and things like that and I had the opportunity to invite some of the moms, those two moms that I really bonded with to an LYP event, and eventually, they also became participants of the program so they do, now they are part of the LYP sisterhood. And one of the moms. She is a graphic designer so she designed our business card for us. They have also really made the effort to refer other women to the program so they’ve truly been assets to me and in that sense, as in many many ways actually. And the reason why I chose this as a great networking experience for me personally is because it reinforced it’s another reminder for me that networking is about building human relationships, and organic relationships matter, they take time but they are worth it, because I never attended the pre component, postnatal classes, with the intention to promote my business. I was not there to advance my career, I just wanted to connect with other moms who had similar experiences as first-time moms. And in that process, I think, I was able to demonstrate to them who I was as a person, as a professional enough that they trusted my brand as Jean Kim to trust the brand that was LYP, so they voluntarily took part of the program. Now they’re part of my sisterhood, I consider them in some ways as a mentee as well. Now that took part of the program. And so it’s just this beautiful example for me that networking can happen anywhere. It can happen anywhere, even in a post and prenatal class. And these amazing career opportunities, professional opportunities business opportunities came as a result, naturally, but also as a result of the efforts that we’ve jointly put in to get to know one another, know one another and support one another as women. And as moms.

Despina Zanganas  27:47  

That’s so great because you know you talked about how they trusted you. I mean one of the key things about networking is, You know is you do business with people you know like and trust, right, and so you were obviously able to develop that and like you said it wasn’t intentional. It was just, you wanted to meet other people and they became this amazing contact for you and eventually a client and things like that and it’s so wonderful to hear that, you know, and to hear the different stories. 

I want to switch it up a bit to talk about introverts like we talked a little bit about them before, but you know, for some people, networking, it just, it comes easy like maybe you and me, but for those who have a harder time, what would you say or what would you recommend that they try.

Jean Kim  28:39  

First of all, know that just because your friend or best friend is a social butterfly that does not mean that they are a successful networker just because somebody collected 1000 business cards at a networking event, it does not mean that they are a successful networker, they may have a lot of acquaintances, but that’s probably about it. And I’m not saying this is the case for all social butterflies, or all extroverts, but just don’t compare yourself to that social butterfly friend, some tangible tips that I could offer to introverts is. It may sound counterintuitive but arrive at a networking event, early. And this is because if you arrive at a networking event, late, where it’s already crowded and lots of noise if people are already mingling and chatting, it may become even more stressful for you to try, to join a conversation that’s already taking place. So arrive early. And I guarantee you there will also be somebody else who has arrived early, and who’s looking for somebody to talk to. So approach that person. And also I think sometimes just sharing that vulnerability that you have about, you know, I’m actually not that very comfortable coming to a networking event if you’d if you openly share that information with them, you’ll be surprised they might actually be saying the same thing I’m like, oh my goodness I feel the same way, and that can spark a conversation in and of itself and so I think just taking the pressure off to join a conversation that’s already there, by arriving late because I know, yeah okay you don’t want to attend it so you arrive late but, but maybe next time you might want to experiment with arriving early instead and see that how that works out for you. I also encourage people to just go out and observe, especially when it comes to networking events, just make it a goal for you to just observe and take the pressure off yourself to chat or to talk to people and make that meaningful connection just yet, for that particular event that you’re attending, think about okay, how is that person, starting a conversation, what’s their body language, how are they exiting that conversation, and think of it as a learning opportunity. When you come home. Really pat yourself on the back for putting yourself out there and going, and using it as a learning opportunity and reflect and think about what you want to do next time, I think, just observing, in and of itself can be a huge opportunity for you to learn and reflect and earlier I also said when we talked about. Wing women take yourself a wing woman take yourself a wingman. And let the other person toot your horn for you. And so that it takes the pressure off yourself to do it yourself. Last but not least, is to take ownership of your own networking and add your own actions that new take to network, basically, a lot of people think that I am a social butterfly because I like to entertain. Even my sister, she thinks, Oh, you’re such a social butterfly you entertain all the time. And, but I am not shy, I will say this I am not shy, but I am such a core introvert at heart because I need my own time I need to be in my own zone, I need to recharge my energy by just by being by myself. That’s how I gain the energy, even though I love people I’m certainly not anti-social. I love people. But the reason why I like to entertain and invite people to my home and throw parties is because I can do it on my time, my turf and by people that I want to connect with, and the ones that I want to strengthen my relationships with. So I’m taking ownership of my own networking experience. So for those other introverts out there take ownership of your own networking experience and find what works for you. Don’t feel so much pressure to have to attend a networking event, if you’re more comfortable with one on one coffee chats, by all means, go for it. There are also meetups that are smaller and scale and may have perhaps you might feel more comfortable in those settings as well, and find opportunities where you have, you already have something in common with those individuals like if you have a meetup. Of course, after COVID If you have a meetup with people who enjoy wine or like to go hiking together you all already have a common denominator, and I think so that allows you to have some more things to talk about for the beginning for your love for why your love for hiking and your love of volunteering and things like that so I think that also helps you take that pressure off. And so absolutely take ownership of your own networking experience so that you feel more empowered.

Despina Zanganas  33:35  

You talk about like dinner parties and you know, bringing it in your own space, that reminds me of an event I almost had with a friend, but because of scheduling we never had it, but we were going to have basically like a little dinner party at my place and everybody had to bring somebody that nobody else knew,

Jean Kim  33:54  

Oh, it’s so interesting.

Despina Zanganas  33:57  

Yeah, so then it’s on your own turf so you feel a little bit more comfortable going up to people and you know, by hosting something at your place you become a celebrity right. And then people kind of want to talk to you. And I think it becomes really easier so I think that’s a great way for introverts because you’re in a safe space, right, when you’re on your own turn, so like that you have that. Yeah, I miss those dinner parties you know I do.

Jean Kim  34:27  

I do too. I really miss that one like that, that physical interaction with others. Yeah but, but this is also great

Despina Zanganas  34:39  

For sure. Let’s talk about social media, is there a specific network that you use is it Instagram is it LinkedIn is it Twitter that you use to network and how do you use it?

Jean Kim  34:53  

I primarily use LinkedIn, when it comes to networking, and I don’t necessarily use it to make new connections but I use it to really strengthen and nurture the relationships that already exist. I really am so grateful for LinkedIn for the fact that it provides me with. It makes my life easier and the society provides me with updates about promotions career changes victories, challenges that my network is experiencing, and so it allows me to reach out to them much more easily, without doing the research myself in some ways, and so I make sure to utilize those updates on LinkedIn to reach out to those that are already in my network and I remember Despina when you announced that you were launching Connect and Bloom, I was so happy for you, and I would not have been able to find that information without being on LinkedIn and reading that post that you uploaded that day and so, so definitely LinkedIn has served a great serve me and a great way in terms of strengthening my existing relationships.

Despina Zanganas  35:54  

Yeah for sure and I mean, you were already on my list of people that I wanted to interview but because you commented on that post I was like let me bring her up a little bit higher on my list. As a guest. So it’s interesting, it keeps you know both people on, on top of each mind

What are the top three things you think that we should be doing on LinkedIn?

Jean Kim  36:19  

Right. Well number one, figure out whether LinkedIn is a relevant platform for you, of course, for instance, my, I have some family members who are medical professionals, and they say LinkedIn really isn’t that relevant for their career for the profession so make sure that LinkedIn is number one relevant to you and if it is, make sure you have an updated profile with a polished looking profile picture, that is definitely something that you absolutely cannot avoid. If you are going to reach out to somebody on LinkedIn please please please personalize your message, please don’t just send a default LinkedIn invitation to connect. And even though you may think that you are personalizing the message, sometimes you really aren’t because I’ve had experiences where some people would say, Hey Jean. Looks like we have some mutual connections so I’d love to connect. And we actually don’t have any mutual connection. In reality, so. And so to me that’s, you know, it was just it’s disappointing when I read those invitations because, please at least make the effort to read my profile and whether we actually do have people in common. And so it makes me hesitate to accept their invitation, if they, if their first impression, itself, is a little disappointing. And as I’ve mentioned before, spend some time on LinkedIn, I personally spend about five or 10 minutes every day to just look at the updates of my network what’s going on in their lives, and especially if you notice that they are going through a challenge, then reach out to them right there and then because you will forget if you postpone it to a later day. Do it right there and then reach out to them and ask them how you can be of support. I think that’s even more crucial during times of COVID

Despina Zanganas  38:11  

Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned COVID And we talked a little bit about it before. How do you think networking has changed in general, and you specifically during these times?

Jean Kim  38:25  

Well, for me personally, not much has changed in terms of pre-COVID and COVID times it’s more like pre, post-baby. Many things have changed for me. I have not had the time or the energy to actively go to networking events after the baby was born. However, I did do a lot of, I did put in a lot of effort to really just focus on the LYP women, the women in the LYP network, and just supporting them and mentoring them since the baby was born, and after COVID Lilit and  I both, we really made sure that our LYP ladies were okay, that our, our tribe was okay. When the pandemic hit. We reached out to every single one of our alumni, we call them, texted them, email them, are you okay, just checking in, let us know how we can support you. And so, in, in a way COVID has been such a strong reminder for us that, number one, never take anything for granted. Human relationships are so valuable and so the value and treasure, the people that are in your lives, and that your network really does matter so if that was something that we definitely focused on during COVID Until now.

And I want to thank you. Despina for inviting me to this podcast because it was almost like a catalyst for me to reach out to women who I haven’t spoken to in quite some time. So for the last month alone, I think I reached out to and reconnected with I think five or six women who I haven’t spoken to in a few years, some of us, we’ve had babies along the way we’ve really evolved in terms of our professional lives and personal lives, but the connection was still there and it was just such a beautiful reminder of having those organic relationship-building, just the importance, again, of connections and human relationships so thank you for inviting me to this podcast because that really, it was like, hey Jean You haven’t stuck in just to such and such and such a long time, I think this will be a great time to talk to her and so, so yes thank you for that. 

Despina Zanganas  40:40 

Oh, that’s so wonderful to hear I mean, that’s, that’s kind of why I’m doing this podcast right just to remind people to network and grow their network so it just it warms my heart when I hear things like that. And I also love what you said about you and Lilit, we’re reaching out to your community like it really says a lot about both of you and the organization that you’ve built like such a caring and warm community. You know that really wants to make sure that everybody’s okay and, and, you know, and you’re there to help, but it really does say a lot about you. 

Speaking of your community, you know there’s a lot of immigrants or newcomers that are part of your community, and maybe people that don’t speak the language is there any advice that you can give to them specifically. Tell me a little bit more about that?

Jean Kim  41:30  

Absolutely. Like I said earlier on, for some who come from a culture where there necessarily isn’t an event that has the title networking event, the whole concept of networking attending a networking event can be foreign and intimidating and uncomfortable at first, but I think it is important that you understand that networking is a very big part of North American culture, whether you like it or not. So, to put yourself out there and learn what this culture is about. Having said that, however, don’t put too much pressure on yourself to get it right away, but to understand networking North American networking culture right away because I think even those who were born and raised here may not get it. Even now, right, because I think right working is a journey. It’s not like it’s a marathon, it’s not a 100-meter dash when it comes to networking so don’t be so stressed out if you don’t immediately get the networking culture within North America. 

For those who don’t speak English as their first language, first of all, know that you are define yourself as a bilingual rather than a non-native speaker of English because I think that makes a huge difference in terms of your confidence. you speak right away, perhaps even more languages, so don’t bring yourself down by saying oh I don’t speak English I’m not a native speaker, you are bilingual, just repeat that to a lot of them will bilingual and therefore I have a lot more to offer than you think. And similar to what I said about introverts. Expose yourself to networking opportunities, and take a wingman or wingwoman to make yourself a little bit more comfortable at first, but take advantage of mentorship opportunities that are out there. For instance, in Toronto, there are several organizations that offer free mentorship events, they connect you with. Sometimes people from your own ethnic community, your own linguistic background or others who are in a field that you desire to be in. And I think those individuals who volunteer to be mentors, they’re there because they want to help you and support you so really take advantage of those opportunities to connect with them to learn from them and to, expose yourself to North American networking culture in general. Those opportunities are out there for mentorship, but you do have to put in the work to do the research and to find what they are, and because they really are out there that I don’t think enough people take advantage of those opportunities,

Despina Zanganas  44:11  

You know, that’s a great point. You were talking about, you know, you don’t have to get it right away. You know I think it’s a really important point to say that networking takes practice, it’s almost like a muscle that you have to like work on until you get better at it. And because I have to say when I first started I mean I talked about it a lot is that I was terrified of networking when I first started, I never thought I could do it. But the more I do it the more comfortable I am right. And I think that’s an important point to tell people. 

I’d like to move on, and I want to know what you would tell your younger self, I mean it connects a little bit to some of the questions we asked before, but you know you look back and what would you wish you could tell yourself?

Jean Kim  45:10  

I would tell, especially 20 Something Jean. Don’t worry so much about impressing with words, especially if it’s about you and how great you are, what you’ve achieved because leading with curiosity. Really listening attentively and asking good questions doing the research about the other person prior to meeting them as well. And that’s how you will impress, not necessarily with words about who you are and how great you are, or not saying a lot with words, but you are seeing so much about your brand with your behaviour, your actions. And so, so definitely focus more on that. But, having said that, I would not want to re to erase any of the experiences that I had in my 20s I think I needed those experiences I needed those, those cringy if I think that goes cringy mistakes that I’ve made in the past to really evolve into the woman that I am today, to the more confident woman that I am today and to be able to talk about my mistakes laughing about it really now and to be able to teach networking as a module in my program because if I had not made those mistakes. I would be, I don’t think I would be able to talk about it like the way I’m able to now, I don’t think I would be able to have accumulated some of the wisdom that I think I’ve hopefully accumulated along the way. And I think there’s beauty. I think there’s absolutely beauty absolute beauty in the mistakes, and the lessons you’ve learned along the way and I would not change it for the world. However, also, having said that, again, the reason why I’m running the LYP program why we started it was so that the women of today the 20 Something women of today have fewer challenges relatively fewer challenges and what I experienced so that their lives could be a little easier. But when it just comes to Jean Kim. I am grateful for the mistakes I’ve made along the way.

Despina Zanganas  47:13 

I think we can all relate to the cringe-worthy moments in our 20s

Jean Kim  47:20  

Can I share a very embarrassing story? I was attending an academic conference, and I did not bother to ask my professor she invited me to attend I was in university I did not bother to ask her what is the dress code who was attending all I cared about is the fact that I was going to attend the event and then go on a date with my then-boyfriend. So what did I wear to the academic conference in Korea, this conservative environment of academics, I wore a pink chiffon dress to a networking event. Oh my goodness. You know I laugh about it now, but I, I entered the event and I exited the event because I looked around and I saw all these people in suits and ties and women in their professional attire and there I was this young 20 Somethings Jean in my pink chiffon dress, I just left right away I was so embarrassed and I was so ashamed of myself for not having done the research about this event because it would have only taken me two minutes to ask my professor, what do people wear to these kinds of events, how can I present myself as a professional student like somebody that’s polished and I didn’t even bother. So that is definitely on top of my list is one of the most embarrassing networking experiences.

Despina Zanganas  48:35 

That is so funny and I bet you never did it again right.

Jean Kim  48:39  

No, no, never again.

Despina Zanganas  48:43  

So, for anyone who listens to this show on a regular basis, they know that this is a question I asked every single guest. Is there anyone that you’ve always wanted to meet now, like this person has to be alive and it has to be realistic. So the reason I’m asking is because you’ve probably heard of the six degrees of separation which is the idea that, on average, people are six or fewer degrees, few connections from each other, you know essentially like a friend of a friend or something like that so I’m hoping that maybe one of my listeners might know, is there anyone out there that you’ve always wanted to meet.

Jean Kim  49:19 

Okay, so I love this question. First of all, thank you so much for this question, it’s brilliant. I hope this is not too unrealistic because I have a plan B if, if it is, but I would love to meet the Academy Award-winning actress Youn Yuh-Jung, who recently won the Best Supporting Actress at the Oscar she is a Korean actress in her 70s I’ve admired her work for so many years she’s been in the industry for 50 plus years. She’s the first Korean woman, only the second Asian woman to have won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress, so I’m so proud of her, of course for that. But the reason why I would love to meet her is because, whenever I see her in interviews. She is so unapologetically herself. She speaks her mind as she spoke her mind, even when it was unpopular to speak her mind. Back in the days in the conservative environment that was Korea. And she does this with humility with humour. Never disrespecting others, she just does this in a way that really makes her feel so genuine even though I don’t know her in person, I feel like she’s being so authentic. And I love that I love it when women are so unapologetically themselves, and they still can earn the respect of others. So I would love to speak with her and just get to know her as an individual, not so much as an actress, but just in the individual how is it that you’re able to be this way. And despite the hurdles that you’ve experienced along the way so I would love to connect with her. 

If Youn Yuh-Jung doesn’t work out. It’s Lee Isaac Chung, is the director of Minari, where you know Youn Yuh she starred in. And I’m in no way I’m not a movie junkie or anything like that I don’t know movies from a professional standpoint at all, but I got really curious about him because Youn Yuh-Jung in one of her interviews after she won the Oscar, she said, this Isaac he is. He’s about 30 years younger than her, and he is somebody that she’s come to really respect and admire, despite the age gap, and saying you admire somebody you respect somebody with that huge of an age gap is not very common in Korean culture but she said that she’s, he, she definitely admires and respects him. And it’s because of the way. He led the crew and cast in such a calm and collective way he respected everybody all the time, he never lost his cool. And as somebody who, who teaches leadership for a living, who runs a leadership program. I’m always curious when somebody is praised for their leadership style. And because you don’t have to be a politician, you don’t have to be in the corporate world to be a leader, you can lead in any organization and obviously this director big, Lee Isaac Chung he was leading the cast and crew in a way that, that gained the respect of those who worked with and so I would love to hear his story, his take on emotional intelligence leadership because I really believe that emotional intelligence is a key factor for any leader. So I would love to meet him and just have a conversation with him.

Despina Zanganas  52:55  

Those are great people. I’d love to be able to connect you with them you never. You never know, with this network, right. Well, we’ll see what we can do. 

It’s so funny you said those two people everybody seems to choose people who are great leaders and who have great stories so I can understand why you selected those specific people, specifically. 

So before we end the show I’d like to answer a question from the listeners. So, you know, listeners, please visit my website to submit a networking question there and hopefully we can have one of our guests to answer them. Okay, so this is a question from Cassie. I just graduated with a degree in journalism, what advice would you give someone who’s just starting out in their career?.

Jean Kim  53:47  

This is a great question, really also makes them reflect on my own, younger years when I was just starting out in my career. 

Number one, remember that networking is a marathon, it is not 100-meter dash, so don’t expect instant gratification right away. You do need to put the effort, and energy and time to build relationships. Having said that, I would also say, try to connect with a mentor who can give you more guidance and support to make the experience a little bit less challenging for you, and if you’re a recent graduate, especially, there will be opportunities for you to connect with an alumni because I think most Alumni Associations of universities do have mentorship programs and those who volunteer to mentor are there because they want to support and help you so take advantage of those opportunities and connect with a mentor from university to help guide you and support you along the way. 

And also think about who do I already know from my university years that I really want to strengthen my relationship with. Yes, you are going out there and you want to expand your network but do not neglect the ones that already exist in your life. Think about the colleagues, the professors, the teammates that you’ve had in university, cherish those relationships, and don’t forget to contact them and keep in touch with them. I often hear from some clients and some colleagues that, let’s say, seven or eight years or even more after they’ve graduated from university, and they want to go to grad school, and they say, but Jean. I don’t think any of my professors remember me. I don’t think any of my fellow students remember me like I want to ask them for a referral or recommendation letter but I don’t think they remember me because I never bothered to keep in touch. And it’s not because yes you may need to get that recommendation from them, a letter from them, but just keeping in touch with those that supported you, those that were meaningful for you in back in the days when you were in university I think it’s so important. And yes, you may need that recommendation letter along the way but not just because of that value human relationships will take you a long way. So don’t neglect, the network and the connections that you made in university, even though you are simultaneously making the effort to build a larger network.

Despina Zanganas  56:25 

You know that’s a great point I’ve often heard people say you know the biggest benefit of going to university was the connections I made. Obviously, you learn a lot, but it really helped you grow your network and expand right when you’re in high school, it was a certain set of people and now it’s grown to so many others and I think it’s so key.

Jean Kim  56:49  

Exactly, and, and one tip that I want to offer when it comes to just keeping in touch with professors because I was a professor myself as you don’t necessarily have to write to them so often or send them a long email, just a simple acknowledgement of what they meant to you as an educator, just a simple thank you every now and then that goes such a long way, and they will remember you. I promise you they will remember you as somebody that appreciates human relationships. It doesn’t matter whether you got an A or a C in their class. Thank you, gratitude really goes a long way.

Despina Zanganas  57:35  

Yeah, that’s a great point to end on. 

So thank you so much for being here, Jean, I absolutely thought it was a great time, and it was such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Jean Kim  57:41  

Thank you so much for having me again Despina, and if I may just take up a little bit more of your time, I really really want to acknowledge your efforts to create this safe space for women. The listeners, and for me as a guest speaker because when I read the checklist that you sent to me. To me, that just spoke volumes about yet again about who you were as a person, as a professional and as a woman because of the way you worded, the things on the checklist, I thought, This is so Despina, it’s so welcoming. It’s so reassuring it’s, and you even have on that checklist. This is a safe space, so do not worry if you make mistakes, I thought, this is exactly how I felt about her when I first connected with her on the phone, and she’s only reinforcing that yet again to me and so you. You’re doing such a great job in terms of your personal brand because you’re so consistent. You just, and I don’t know if you are mindful of the fact that you’re doing it but you just do it so beautifully. So organically, and I think in that way, you’re such an amazing role model for women out there. Thank you so much.

Despina Zanganas  58:51  

Thank you Jean. That’s so that touches my heart I really really appreciate it. Thank you so much. 

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