Episodes

In episode 6, I interview the founder and CEO of an organization that is dedicated to getting women on boards of directors, aptly named Women Get on Board. Deborah Rosati helps advance gender diversity in the boardroom by connecting women with the right people and opportunities. Not surprisingly, Deborah and I met at a networking event back in 2015, and we continue to keep in touch to this day. Tune in as Deborah and I discuss all things networking.

Show Transcript

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Despina Zanganas  0:24  

Hello everyone, thank you so much for joining me today on the Connect and Bloom Podcast. Let me tell you a little bit about Deborah. Deborah is an accomplished corporate director, entrepreneur, Fellow Chartered Professional Accountant (FCPA) and certified Corporate Director (ICD.D) with more than 30 years of experience in technology, consumer, retail, cannabis, private equity and venture capital. An experienced Audit Committee and Nominating & Corporate Governance Committee Chair, Deborah provides extensive knowledge as a Corporate Director in financial, corporate governance, corporate strategy, transformational changes, M&A, and CEO and board succession planning.

Deborah is a frequent speaker and author. Her thought leadership blogs on corporate governance, board diversity and leadership are available here at:  https://www.womengetonboard.ca/category/deborah-rosati-blog/.  Her e- books can be found at: https://ebooks.womengetonboard.ca

Deborah Rosati  1:32  

Thank you, Despina I’m delighted. 

Despina Zanganas 1:43

I’d like to kick it off with this question. how did we originally connect?

Deborah Rosati  1:42  

You know I had to think about that, there was two times that we met and they were pivotal because we obviously were connected through those moments, but it was March, 2015, and it’s funny I just launched Women Get on Board, two days before March 16 2015 And it was at a networking event that CAWEE, I think it was at the Holt Renfrew restaurant, I believe, and CAWEE, yeah so Canadian associated with women entrepreneurs and executives. 

Despina Zanganas 2:18

Right, right. Yeah, you were on a panel and I was so impressed with what you were saying, and I was there with my co-founders of Lean In Canada, Sarah and we went up to you and said we would love to have you as a speaker at our event and then  we started talking about it and connected. Ever since then I’ve been to a ton of Women get on board events and I follow you on social and I just think you’re such an amazing person, you’ve really inspired me. So I’m so honored to have you here.

Deborah Rosati  2:54

Thank you just Despina. You’re making me blush. 

Despina Zanganas 2:59

So, when you first come to your website, you immediately see the three pillars, connect, promote and empower. So tell me a little bit about your business and the work that you do and where networking comes into play. 

Deborah Rosati  3:15

Yeah, well thank you. I like to think of Women Get on Board as a social purpose company, and our mandate and mission is to get more women on boards, and we do that through three pillars of the company, there’s the Connect piece, there’s the Promote piece and then empower and the connect pieces, the networking and connecting and community. The promote piece is elevating our members and elevating their thought leadership, their board appointments as speakers as panelist as from blog interviews, and then the empowerment piece is really the educational piece where you know we’ll bring speakers on particular topics we just had Women Get on Board speaker series on Tuesday and the topic was are you ready for public service boards so we really try to empower women and men in our community to be more effective in their board roles or even how do you start what is that journey so really it came for me when I launched it was really over the years I’ve been serving as a corporate director. And typically, one is the only woman at the boardroom table, especially in the tech sector, and I’d be asked by women in leadership roles, how did I get on a board. And so over the years I would speak at conferences and my I titled my slides, Women Get on Board I wanted to affirmative I wanted to make an action oriented so when the opportunity, timing wise, I decided you know what, this is bigger than oneself, and I’m going to create a platform and create a community launch it. I launched in March 2015 

Despina Zanganas 4:52

You know I’ve been to many Women Get on Board events and I have to say every single time your community has been so welcoming and so supportive. Everyone just seems to come together and they want to talk and learn about each other and they’re so engaged. It’s one of the few organizations where I’ve seen that people really, really want to help each other. And I have to say I’ve met so many amazing women through your events and I always leave so inspired and motivated.

Deborah Rosati  5:21

Well thank you for saying that, I mean I think about community as you bring like minded people together or you create an environment, a forum to have those conversations because obviously you’re there’s multitude of reasons that you would, you know come to an event, you know, one you’re interested in the topic two, you know, the speaker you want to support them, three, you’re, you know, you’re building out your network, or four, could be a multitude of other reasons that I haven’t named, but in particular. Now as you know this last year we haven’t been coming together in person, and everything virtually. And so trying to create a virtual environment and virtual community where you can make connection and for us now, we would go, we would do events across Canada and I would go to Calgary and go to Vancouver and I go to Ottawa and go to Halifax and we of course will host them in Toronto, and trying to bring community together, but now that we’re doing it virtually as you know, you know it’s a speaker series and you can you can log in from anywhere across Canada, Because we are a member based company in Canada. So I think, um, and hopefully we do get further into that so when you bring people together in person, that’s creating community and it’s a way to foster relationships but when you do events and you do programming, and you do it virtually you have to work equally, as a matter of fact I think you have to work harder to create that connection because it is difficult when you’re not in person..

Despina Zanganas 6:48

That’s a great point and it actually leads me to my next question. You you recently wrote a blog post about networking, and you pointed out that networking isn’t necessarily attending an event like you just said right?. What is your actual definition of networking.? 

Deborah Rosati  7:04

Well, I take networking and move it to another level, and the blog that I wrote is about networking but I call it the power of connection. And I feel like you and I went beyond the networking, we built a relationship I feel like we have, as, as through the years built this power of connection. And really, to me, I think that’s kind of outcome you want to have networking is that you can’t. It’s a two way street. It’s reciprocity, you’ve got to feed your network and as we have, we have really built that power of connection because we do support each other, as you know we see each other on socials and you know we, we applaud each other we like each other and you have to be authentic about it you cannot, you know, and it’s not always about an ask from you it has to be a give and take and I think that to me is sort of the fundamental rules of engagement for, I call it the power connection because networking is is one element of it but to get to the higher level of making that connection, and you know and it has to be intentional and it has to be over time, and you have to develop it and you cannot expect that all of a sudden and just because you’ve met someone you have to you have to work on it. I, as an example, yesterday I went to, I attended a zoom talk Ramsey talks, and I noticed the managing director someone that I had not seen in 10 years, I reached out to her, because I’m like oh that’s where she is. Let me return to her and we had a phenomenal conversation and we started off, remember where we met, and how long ago was that it was really authentic and she, you know thank me for reconnecting with her, and it was just a really mutual connection, we lost touch. But when we came together with her it was really fulfilling and so sometimes you know there’s people that come into your life for a reason, sometimes for a season and then sometimes lifers, and I think you know in your community, you get connected and networked with people, for different reasons and I know you’re the role that both you and Sarah as co- founders of Lean in Canada. You connected with so so many women and continue that, that connection point but it doesn’t mean that you have to be in the same role. Your network is your network, right. 

Despina Zanganas 9:26

Yeah, absolutely. You talked about reciprocity, one of the things that is so heartwarming about you is that whenever I send out a newsletter, you always reply to me and say something like: great newsletter, thanks for the content,  and I think that’s part of connecting and networking too. It’s commenting on linkedin posts even if it’s just one word. People think that networking takes so much time, but the way that you’ve done it, saying I’m here I got your newsletter, thanks so much, to others it’s really meaningful because you know that the person’s actually paying attention to what you’re doing and supporting you.

Deborah Rosati  10:02

Well thank you I mean that is another example I think people like you know and fascinating as well, like I saw, you evolve in many ways. Case in point, I saw the sudden you’re doing the Connect and Bloom podcast and I’m like, wow, congrats. What’s that about,  I mean, it came from a place of authenticity because, as entrepreneurs and in business and supporting and elevating women I was like what is she up to now? 

Despina Zanganas 10:36

That’s so nice of you to say. You know for me it’s been great to see Women Get on Board evolve  and I have to say, whenever I see you in a room, people seem to gravitate to you and they know you as that super connector. How did your network help you build Women Get on Board?

Deborah Rosati  10:52

I think that was the fundamental when I knew that with the mission to connect, promote and empower women to corporate boards, I knew that it wasn’t going to be on my own I needed a community. So, kind of with vision in hand, community, and a network, I started socializing it with people you know that will say start with your backyard right start, you know, with people you know, started conceptually saying hey we’re going to, you know, we’re going to create a member based company would you like to become a member would you like to sponsor would you like to be a partner, and it really just started evolving, and then it was like okay let’s start doing events, you know, again you have to kind of prove the model out so I had no sponsors started doing events at the Verity Club. And then we actually outgrew the biggest room there that we could do is, 60 was the capacity then I moved over to the Spoke Club, which I knew about because your Lean In Canada events were there. And so really, you know, I think it’s about being passionate, you know, and really knowing that this, you know, just staying focused staying in your lane and having a purpose and that was what really drove that and I think without the community in the early, you know, adopters, shall we say, I had a, an advisory board, I had a niche, I had founding corporate partners and they came together but they were existing relationships that I had going into the business and I have to continue to foster those and develop those relationships ongoing. 

Despina Zanganas 12:23

How did you develop those relationships beforehand?. 

Deborah Rosati  12:26

Oh, so I say I have 30 plus years I should be changing it to say 35 years I started very young in my career, and I have had an amazing career and network over the years and so you know whether it was I was serving on a board and it was the audit firm partner the audit partner that in, because I was on an audit committee, maybe it was an investor that had invested in a company that I was CFO. Maybe it was the law firm that had done a transactional work for the company either I was, you know, on a board or previous to that, as an executive so you know it’s one of the things that it develops over time and over 35 plus years literally of being in business. You meet people through different, you know, touch points, whether it’s transactions, whether it’s board work whether it’s giving back to community, whether it’s speaking, whether it’s going to a events. It’s a combination and it just cultivates like I said I ended up reconnecting with someone after 10 years yesterday, 

Despina Zanganas 13:35

That’s really interesting, I agree, cultivating relationships is important. I mean, I’m reminded of my first podcast guest Judi. She was talking about how she actually met me and she kind of mapped it out and she figured out that because of that one connection, that she had met years ago, she had made $700,000 in sales because of that one connection and she still has most of those relationships to this day and through me, I’ve introduced her to people so you never know where that relationship is going to lead.

Deborah Rosati  14:20

I have an example, I have an example most recently, so I was CFO of a technology company in the mid 90s And we had one of an early investor come in 25 years later in January I reconnected with him, and we talked about the old times, and I was in a place because of the previous experience I had, which was very positive. He was looking to add a new skill set to his board and new found out that I was, you know with Women Get on Board and so he reconnected with me. After 25 years, it was pretty powerful and we talked about the old days. And you know, it was just knowing each other and having, you know always being credible, and knowing that you have to earn the trust and the respect because you can’t just show up, you know, it has to be continuous. So, you know, those are a couple touch points that were really just this year that made me really realize how deep your, your relationships and how over time that impact that it has and it’s got a very very gratifying. 

Despina Zanganas 15:22

Yeah that’s a great point. So we’ve talked about deep relationships,, I’d like to talk about generosity. So, you are really really generous and supportive of your community, and generosity is one of the important networking concepts,how does it play out in the Women Get on Board community.?

Deborah Rosati  15:31

Well, I wrote a blog, some time ago when I really it was the element of give generously and receive graciously. And as a giver, you can give a lot and you can give generously. But I also think you have to be in a place to receive graciously right so then you can’t always be giving that you can be very generous and giving that you also receiving graciously I think is so so important so I think that giving is setting, setting boundaries as well as a giver right, you know it’s a two way street. And so I get a lot of, I get amazing amounts of introductions and referrals to women and I do my best to get someone that has that I know over the years has referred someone who’s looking to get on a board or early in their and I make a point of having a half hours in call like I I schedule that time because to me it’s so important to meet that next generation of women Corporate Directors, you never know who’s on who’s on the other end and just through community and inquiry and curiosity, like I really, I love that engagement I love having those conversations I’m meeting someone new, you know, I track kind of all the. So just to date, I’ve got I’ve since January, I’ve had 140 new connections right and. Yeah. And that is, you know whether I linked in with them, whether I got introduced to them whether they reached out to me after I did, I spoke at something like, I, I try my best to sort of every year kind of go generate and say okay. Who did I meet this year right and, you know, and if you’re meeting that many people you do your best to remember who you met. And when you met them as you, we started the meeting off and the podcast was how we met because to me that that’s always either how we met, or how we were connected to me, that is a really important element of that connection and that networking is when we met and how we met, or how we got introduced 

Despina Zanganas 17:45

Right, you reminded me of something. You said all these people were reaching out to you on LinkedIn. When is too much? you know, what’s an appropriate way to reach out to you, because, you know, obviously, you probably don’t have that much time, and I think some people don’t necessarily realize that you know. How do you manage that, how do you manage people that are so demanding of your time? 

Deborah Rosati  18:20

Well I think that’s part of when you, when creative Women Get on Board, I knew that it was higher than oneself and had a bigger purpose in life. So, I have a team I have a virtual team. A lot of times, emails will come in to connect with and get on board so not directly to me we have a, if you go onto the website if you want to get connected. Some people will just see my name by virtue of will go to link down. But I also have a team I have someone who meant I have my operations manager who I don’t know how to deal without her she manages my calendar so, and then I serve on board so I have that I have to manage my calendar so, but I do set boundaries, and you know I don’t try to be all things to all people and try to be, you know, again, very focused on what Women Get on Board like I have women that will send me their board resumes in the last week, can I review them. Well, if I reviewed every board resume that came in my inbox, I’ll have a call with them. I’ll encourage them, I’ll send them articles, I’ve got my eBook out how to get yourself on a board, so we’ll always try to find an alternative for them. We have a program getting board ready. Last year we launched with LHH Knightsbridge, and we’ve had 70 women through that, that respective cohorts and so that’s another great way. So, you know, we’re all encouraged him to become a member because we do events and we’ve got programs and so you know it. I do my best. I’m sure much like you. You want to give back and you know that you’re helping that next generation of women Corporate Directors, but at the same time, you know I can’t have an hour consultation with each individual that reaches out to me. 

Despina Zanganas 20:01

For sure you definitely want to help but sometimes it becomes really difficult when there’s so many people asking for your advice so I100% get that.  So other than Women Get on Board, what other networks have been really successful for you. Is it like alumni? Is it personal associations? Work associations or things like that? 

Deborah Rosati  20:23

That’s a good question I reflected on it, I would say Institute of corporate directors, once upon a time when I was in Ottawa I co-chaired the ICD, Ottawa chapter with a very good friend of mine, she co chaired with me. And that was a great way to kind of build out community in Ottawa when I was there because the chapter needed to kind of re-ignite re-engage. And so staying connected through the institute corporate directors of which I have my ICD.D certified director is really important. Another community is my profession CPA Canada. I am involved in their. I have for several years, been involved in their CPA Canada annual audit committee conference and I’m on an advisory council so we provide input and guidance and connect on topics and bring speakers in so professionally, my alma mater, I’ve been very involved over the years I created an entrepreneurship fund named after myself to create the next generation of entrepreneurs. I went to Brock, Goodman School of Business. I, you know, I’m actuallyI’ll  go back on campus so to speak, virtually now. Women in Leadership Series they’re working on, so I you know I would say that those three have been a pretty steady, and then over the years. I was named through WXN top 100 Most Powerful Women, so I have been a mentor in that for at once you are named, then you have an opportunity to mentor other women leaders. So I’ve been a mentor through that so I think WXN has been a good organization for women executives. And then more recently I’ve become a member of the International Women’s Forum for the Toronto chapter, and there’s some really great women there. So I think it’s a combination and then when I was in when I was in venture capital I was a member of the. I became a member of the CVCA, which the CVCA Canadian Venture Capital Association I think it’s private equity so it really depended on. Sometimes the stage of where I was in my career. What was important. When I was a CFO of a technology startup I was a member of CIRI, which is the Canadian Investor Relations Institute so I’ve always, there’s always been a professional association in some way, somehow throughout my career. Being involved in my alma mater ongoing. And, you know, it just really depends on, you know, Having gone into the cannabis sector, and not necessarily part of an association, but I’m very aware of, You know, the forums and etc that go with them. So, I think you have to, you can’t be a member of all communities, you have to pick and choose. 

Despina Zanganas 23:21

And how do you pick and choose like what do you know what’s best for you? 

Deborah Rosati  23:25

Well I think it’s, I think it really is dependent on where you are and what your objectives are and so for me, my alignment with the Institute of Corporate Directors, I’m a member now I not involved from a chapter perspective, but that’s ongoing development as a professional director corporate director so that’s important to stay engaged and attend their conferences and if there is, you know, virtual events or events. The CPA Canada is near and dear to my heart. I’ve been involved in giving back in different ways, probably for the last decade or so. And, yeah. And so, and that over time I’ve been involved in community not for profit so I was involved with the National Ballet School, and that has its own community and it has its Advisory Board, alumni, and I’m part of that still so, you know, at the end of the day, but you also have to decide when it’s time to leave, Right, if it’s something that’s not serving you, or it’s time to move on and as you created, you know, Lean in Canada, and it you had a, you had a clear I know I talked to you and Sarah about it, you had a succession plan right you knew you knew that it was time to pass the torch on right so to speak, and so I think it’s really important to always be evaluating where you are, what serving purpose for you, and maybe it doesn’t. And I think you don’t have to stay on everything forever you know you have to be really clear on your exit strategy. 

Despina Zanganas 24:55

Yeah, that’s a great point. I want to switch it up a bit. Do you have a very favorite networking story or an experience to share that really changed your life.

Deborah Rosati  25:02

I do have one, I do have one that I think is very valuable. And I think back on it, to late 2006, Toronto. And at that time I was living in Ottawa. There was an organization called Women in the Lead. And at that time it was they Their mission was to get more women on boards to advance women in the boardroom. And they had an amazing founder and CEO Dorothy and her last name escapes a just a wonderful woman with a big vision and had amazing network of women. And I got invited to an event in Toronto. And I think it was probably at the national club, or university club. And I went and I met this woman, her name is Bev Topping, and I hope she’s listening or will be listening in, she at the time was the president of the Institute of Corporate Directors. And I had met her. No, I actually hadn’t even taken the ICD directors education I’ve met her at the event and I handed her my card and card at that date back in the day when you had cards. She turned over my card. And, like I was running a consulting practice and it was focused around financing strategies for technology startups. She saw the word technology, and it went in her mind, and next thing you know, she connects back to me, makes an introductions to the Chair of the Board of OLG, which is Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation, right, and they were adding to their board at the time, and they wanted individuals that had a technology background and I would never say I’m a technologist, but I’ve been in the tech sector. And I remember that pivotal all she did was flip over my card and saw that I and again it’s about your branding, and I, my back my content financing strategies for technology startups. And to me that was pivotal. That was the beginning of my elevating my board journey into large that case public sector board, and shortly thereafter went on a public sector, public company board, and that was I gonna say November 2006, and I also said, How come you’re not doing these events in Ottawa, and they came back and said, great, go for it girl, and probably within four months we had a women in the lead event and needless to say I went on their board thereafter. So I think to me that was a real pivotal moment I, in my mind I was like women lead I want to be part of that organization, I want to be part of the next generation of women Corporate Directors, so I went to a community, and then brought them to Ottawa, and ended up going on their board so to me that was a real pivotal moment for me. 

Despina Zanganas 27:55

That’s an amazing story, you know everybody has one of those stories that’s really made a difference. You know, sometimes you don’t like going to an event and you push yourself to go because you never know who you’re going to meet. I’ve had so many experiences like that, where I’ve pushed myself and I wound up meeting somebody that was amazing, and who I’m just so grateful to have met .

You were talking about being on boards, and I suspect because you’ve been on different boards for such a long time that you were the only woman at the table am I correct?

Deborah Rosati  28:50

The only exception was the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation out of a board of seven we had four women, so that was unique to me. Most cases currently Yes, and there was only one other occasion where I was on a board where there was one other woman.

Despina Zanganas 28:55

Yeah that makes sense. So do you think it’s different to network when you’re the only woman in the room?

Deborah Rosati  28:58

Well I don’t really think of that any different, like I think I’m going on a board because I’ve, you know, value to contribute and I know I can add value. I think it’s the relationships that you build with your board members and I think a lot of those relationships aren’t necessarily in the boardroom it’s outside of the boardroom. And so now that we’re doing everything virtually, I mean, I joined a board in December its blockchain infrastructure company called TAAL, and they’re publicly traded, and I did, I did my interviewing virtually I onboarded virtually, I’ve done all my meetings virtually, and I’ve yet to meet every I’ve yet to meet my board colleagues in person. So we’ve had to really step it up to build those one to one relationships where, you know after meeting you might go for a drink or you go for coffee, you got to continue that ongoing after meeting, you’ve got to find a time to have a call a follow up, build rapport and so and I you know over the years I’ve had many boards colleagues that I’ve worked with, I may not be on those boards anymore. Case in point tomorrow at 10am I have a call scheduled with one of the board members I was on a board with more recently and we haven’t connected for a while so, you know, you go deep into relationships to from a board perspective so when I think about networking. I think about building a relationship with my board members and then wherever that takes you into the future, but you’ve had this, you know, touch point and you’ve worked on some, you know, interesting work and sometimes very time consuming and very complicated situations that you face as a board. 

Despina Zanganas 30:43

Yeah, that makes sense. Do you think that women network differently than men?

Deborah Rosati  30:46

I think women like to build relationships more, I like to me when I wrote the blog on the power of connection, it’s about the relationship but I do think men, I mean throughout my career. Most of my mentors and sponsors have been men. And so, and, you know, there’s a quote out there that I love saying is that “I always wanted to be a businessman, just like my father”. So, I’ve just been around, My, my best sponsors my best champions are men, in so I see how they network. And, you know, they don’t think twice about it, there’s not a lot of apologies, there’s just  Despina, meet Deborah, boom, you’re together. And as women. I think we do we do, for sure. But I do think we, we have more of a we want to build the relationship. And, and I think men, definitely do that they just do it in their own way but each is equally effective. 

Despina Zanganas 31:51

Yeah, for sure. I definitely agree. Women want to build that trust first and ask you more personal questions like do you have a family. Whereas men are much more, let’s get down to business. Lets introduce one another, lets move forward, you know, it’s, it’s very interesting and I don’t think that any are necessarily better than the other. I think you need to learn from both of them, right, because they’re both good. 

Deborah Rosati  32:17

Yeah, and I feel like I’ve had the best of both worlds and so sometimes I can be. I just had a call with one of my board colleagues and we were just kind of debriefing any he said the thing I like about you. You’re very direct. I said well thank you. I take pride in that and, you know, there’s nothing wrong with being direct but you also have to be very, you know, your emotional intelligence has to be very aware of this, you know, body language communication and styles, so you can be direct when you need to be direct, but you also are really trying to understand the dynamics around the table. 

Despina Zanganas 32:54

Yeah, actually that’s a great point, like EQ and being able to read people are so key because you’re just going to turn people off if you don’t actually meet them where, where they are and I see you’ve nodding. Yeah, it’s, it’s such a key point when it comes to networking and I think that’s where we have kinda lose it on zoom right because we can’t exactly see their actual body language, so yes so important

Deborah Rosati  33:26

Well, I look at your eyes I’m looking at your eyes right now and then seeing your beautiful smile and the engagement just to see your head nodding and, you know, there’s a lot you can do on a screen. 

Despina Zanganas 33:40

That’s definitely true. Okay, we talked a bit about COVID before. So it’s been a bit of a challenge. We had to adapt. What do you think has changed during pandemic when it comes to networking?

Deborah Rosati  33:55

Well I think you know there was the initial I say that there’s really three stages of COVID, there was the initial response stage and so like, oh my god, how am I gonna stay in business oh my god, how am I gonna manage, manage my day job. Oh my god, what am I gonna do with my kids, my dog, my aging parents, you name it, so there was this initial response. And then you kind of went into okay we’re in it, how do we recover from it. And I know we’re in third wave and so that could even be the cycle again where how do you respond to that. And then the second phase is really how do you recover, and there are companies and organizations and people in the third stage that are thriving. And so, to your point, it really I think it depends on what stage you’re at if you’re in the response stage. It’s really hard to be thinking about networking because you’re probably just trying to figure out how to survive day to day. And I think when you can kind of get past that stage, and you’re more in the response stage, then you’re like okay, this isn’t going away anytime soon. I’m not waiting to go back in person for events because we still have a whole nother year probably before we will get in person at least to the same magnitude. And so I think you’ve had to adapt or pivot as people say. And for me, I I’ve really embraced it because you can be really efficient. So, this podcast today I didn’t have to come to you, you didn’t have to come to me I didn’t have to go into studio with you, you’ve got the technology so I think technology has enabled us to stay connected. And I think you just have to work really hard, I think it’s that growth mindset is saying, you know, it is what it is, how do I manage and how do I thrive in it and so I was fortunate a couple weeks ago to participate on a panel that ICD Manitoba chapter held and it was, it’s you’re on mute. Or in board meetings past pandemic, and it was a great conversation because there was a panelist who’s chair of quite a few boards, and we both kind of had the same mindset, it is what it is, how do you how do you work effectively in it and how can you how can you create, but it is you do have to set boundaries as you know because we’re all working from home in different ways. I think you also have to find ways, like I was talking to someone yesterday, they said they have a zoomless Tueday. No meetings, no zoom meeting, except for client meetings. I’ve seen, I see organizations making changes because, as you know, you just go from one meeting to the next so you need to take time to exercise ,you need to take time to eat, but you have to set those boundaries. And, you know, so I think you have to work hard on it, and I think you know we’ll never probably go back to 100%, the way we were will have some hybrid model going forward. 

Despina Zanganas 36:47

Yeah, I mean there’s definitely some parts about that’s been good for me. Not having to travel to go meet somebody, you know we’ve adapted we’ve learnt how do it so it’s become a lot easier and the other thing I like is that  it’s a lot easier to get people on the phone quicker, In the past it would take 3 weeks to meet someone whereas now it’ll be like in a couple days and it’s been so much more efficient.

Deborah Rosati  37:21

That’s I say the efficiency of it like I would do so many coffee meetings, I’m sure you have, and you know it’s like getting there and scheduling it and now it’s like well I can do a zoom call with you. We’ll do a virtual meeting and today I’m all lined up for you know kind of back to back, but good I like but again you have to have the energy you have to know when you’re getting depleted from it, you kind of have to, that you have to give yourself blocks in between right 

Despina Zanganas 37:44

Yeah for sure you have to set boundaries. What do you think are some of the hurdles that get in the way of building a strong network?

Deborah Rosati  37:51

I think there’s that concept that, you know, I’m the imposter syndrome why would someone want to speak to me or what am I what what’s my value and I think that if you’re very intentional and set your objectives of why you want to meet and what’s what’s important, you know, but you have to be authentic about it right so you can’t show up, you know, expecting that person to do all the talking. Like you, have to, it’s a two way engagement and you were talking about if you’re an introvert, you know, and but there’s different ways as an introvert, you don’t have to speak in a big room to everyone you can, you know, meet someone separately or follow up with someone that might have been a speaker on a virtual event so I would say for me, you know, hurdle. It’s a mindset. So if you go in and say, and clearly it’s not yours because you know you because you’ve been to Women Get on board events and  I used to come to your Lean In Canada events and you know I wasn’t like I had to hold your hand and take your around and vice versa right because you embraced it for other people, and for me if I went into a setting and I saw someone who wasn’t coming into, you know, was maybe new to the community, I would try my best to go over introduce myself. And as you know, you know, how did they hear about the event and, you know in this oh well so until invited me or whatever and so I think as natural connectors, you know, sometimes you’ll see people that may not be as comfortable so you want to go and make them comfortable right Introduce yourself Where are they from? why are they there? what are they interested in?. And I think if it’s a hurdle. You know, I think you just kind of have to get over that. If you truly want to connect and, you know early on in my career, I was doing a lot of presentations to senior executive teams and my boss told me at the time he goes, Look, you’re going to be doing presentations, I think you should work on your public speaking. And then I was in my mid 20s At that time, and I thought, well, what’s the program out there. And so I took a Dale Carnegie course and a test of time but it’s always about making a connection with someone and understanding who they are and where they’re from, because you want to find that touch point right and so, um, you know, I guess it’s hard for individuals like you and I, where we are natural connectors and do it because you’re thinking well why doesn’t everyone else do it but not everybody naturally feels comfortable doing it but start in a comfortable place start with, you know, an organization professionally or otherwise start with one one affiliation, and go deep.

Despina Zanganas 40:24

It’s so true, just start with one. You mentioned Dale Carnegie, I think I read his book (How to win friends and influence people) when I was 18 years old or something like that. My mother had copy and it’s really a great book to start with, if you want to learn how to network and connect with people. So I’d like to move on to pet peeves, what are the pet peeves that you have when it comes to networking, what do people do wrong? 

Deborah Rosati  41:01

Well, on LinkedIn, one of the and I’m sure you see it is before they even build a relationship they’re trying to sell a service or a product that don’t even remotely touch where you are and what you’re doing so one they didn’t qualify. So that’s a pet peeve, they don’t know you, they seek me out so they go on LinkedIn, and, you know, before they even try to build a relationship they’re trying to sell you a product or service so that’s a huge pet peeve know your client know your customer, you know, you just don’t go in and try to sell a product on LinkedIn, but I see more and more of that. So, and secondly, I would say for people. It’s a two way. So, you got it, if you’re networking and connecting. If you have to give back, you can’t always be taking. And so to me that’s that reciprocity to a reciprocity and I feel like you and I have that we’ve connected and supporting each other. You’ve made introductions I’ve done that and so to me that’s a powerful relationship that we’ve built, and not everybody, you know, views it that way so I think it’s just a one time without, it’s all, if it’s always just a one time, ask and take, you know, you think twice when you know once bitten twice shy, kind of thing. 

Despina Zanganas 42:26

It’s so funny almost everyone who has been on this podcast has said the same thing about LinkedIn, like that cold email where they don’t review anything about you on your profile. You know, I remember posting something about an organization that I had just started, and this person emailed me. He said you have all these SEO issues with your website. And I was like, That’s interesting because I don’t even have one, 

Deborah Rosati  42:58

(Laughter) You know, talking about

Despina Zanganas 43:01

I probably get them daily.

So this is one of my favorite parts of the show.I really want to connect my guests to people that they’ve always wanted to meet. You’ve heard this six degrees of separation concept right?. So, is there anyone out there that you always wanted to meet and connect with, because if so I’d love to reach out to my audience and if they know that person maybe they can email me and we can connect you with them. Is there anybody like that you would like to meet?

Deborah Rosati  43:34  

Oh I love that ask because I had to think about it long and hard. I think the person that I really really admire and I follow on socials and LinkedIn is Arlene Dickinson.

Despina Zanganas 43:43

Yeah! You’re the second person who asked to meet her, she is very popular, You know what she  is truly truly inspiring. Why did you want to meet her specifically?

Deborah Rosati  43:57  

Well I’ve followed her over the years, um, you know, I think she’s had adversity in her life. She’s a very strong woman leader. And I think she’s got a very generous spirit and very authentic about giving back and creating that next generation of entrepreneurs. I just I I have to say, you know, sometimes over time, you know, you see people out there socially and then sometimes, you know, there’s a disconnect, but I think she’s her authentic self and everything she does. 

Despina Zanganas 44:32

Yeah, She talks about things that are little bit vulnerable I’ve seen her recently she talked about cutting her hair. You know, she is inspiring so I understand why you want to connect with her. 

So now let’s go to a question from the listeners. This question is from Devin: “I’m in my 20s, and I really want to get on a board, what are the steps I need to take to make that happen? who I need to meet?”  And you probably get this question on the daily. 

Deborah Rosati  45:10 

Well, good question from Devin, and I’m glad you’re in your early 20s And you’re thinking out in your career. Last week I posted, and it wasn’t my blog but it was a blog, it was blog an article on how important it is to have multi generational members on the board meaning, very at various ages. And I think that I see a lot of corporate boards, public company, large count, the average age is 60 to 63 I mean that’s off of the most recent Spencer Stewart board index for 2020. And there’s a digital divide, because, you know, at a certain age, you may not be as digitally savvy as a 20 something, a millennial, I see it in my son’s are both millennials and they’re far superior in their technical skills, and digitally savvy than than myself, I think I’m quite savvy, I did get onto Chrome to get on to this podcast. So I proud of myself. But what I’d say to you, Devin. I think it’s really important about what are your, what do you what are your skills, what are you passionate about because I think at that age and stage of where you are, it’s probably a combination of maybe giving back to community through not for profit, and always be building out your, your skills like where do you want to be in time. There’s these what I read recently there’s three chapters in your life, your first chapter is basically preparing for your life’s work. And I would imagine Devin you might be somewhere in there, your second chapter is doing your life’s work, and Despina  I think you’re in your second chapter, and there’s the third chapter of giving back and I really feel like that’s where I am so know where you are. So Devin, it might be more about, you know, preparing for your life’s work, what are the what do I need to do to develop my skills, and I always think of this concept of mastery where you have 10,000 hours of something that you’ve mastered and that’s really when you know you can say I’m expert in this, or I have the skill set so that when I think you’re probably still in the building mode, and really be clear about the skills you want to develop, the industries. Whether you want global experience or not, you know, so a really great stage to be in, and I like to think of getting on board is a journey over one one’s life and I’m still on my journey. 

Despina Zanganas 47:39

Do you think that you need to be in a certain position in your company to be on a board, like, let’s say you’re in the creative department or the marketing department. Do you think that you have to be in the  finance department is that going to get you there quicker or does that really matter? 

Deborah Rosati  48:02

I think it really is about your skills. So, you know, digital transformation is big, you know So, have you had digital transformation, you know whether it was in the creative side, the development side, the finance side have you had that? have you had m&a experience and it could be from a finance from a tech like there are elements of from a board perspective that companies face. Have you gone through a restructuring? Have you, you know, created new products right so I don’t think it’s so much about a position it’s more about the experience that you bring.

Despina Zanganas 48:38

Yeah, that makes sense. So on to my last question, Deborah you talked about how you’ve been in this industry for 35 years. What would you tell your younger self?

Deborah Rosati  48:44

I would tell my younger self a lot, but I would say be fearless. Be fearless. You know, you might fall down what’s the worst can happen. And make sure you find your voice and have that voice, like stand up for what you believe in. And I would say that to me wasn’t in my early career I think I evolved and developed that and the confidence came. You know, I was told early on in my career that I was too nice. I was told, early on in my career that I would never be a CA, I was told, early on in my career that take public speaking. And so when you know I might be told those things that were somewhat constructive. I went after them because I thought, no one’s gonna tell me what I can’t do. I’m gonna do what I can do, and so built on those where I had weaknesses are needed to build strengths and then over time, you know, I really did find my voice and I think that’s a really important element wherever you are in your career, is make sure you find that voice and if it’s not if you don’t feel like you’re in a company where your voice is heard, maybe it’s not the right culture for you, or maybe it’s finding, you know, a safe place and environment to have those conversations, to say, You know what your but just be really intentional and I’d say, above all, be fearless. 

Despina Zanganas 50:15

That’s such great advice, I look back at myself when I was 20, and I’m sure the same thing goes for you, you never could have imagined that you started Women Get on Board this organization that makes such a huge  difference for women  and you know, I think that it’s the same for me, I was so shy in my 20s or late teens and I could never have imagined what I’ve  accomplished so I think that’s great advice, be fearless, 

Deborah Rosati  51:01

Well, and I would say to do that and surround yourself with mentors, sponsors, advisors, confidants, you know, you’re not going to do it on your own and make sure you build a community that can support you. 

Despina Zanganas 51:13

Yes, your community is so important.  So that brings us to the end of the episode so I just want to say Deborah  thank you so much for being here. It was great to connect with you again and I loved all the stories that you shared and how connecting made a difference. Thank you so much.

Deborah Rosati  51:31

Thank you Despina It’s been my pleasure and congratulations on your podcast. 

Despina Zanganas 51:35

Thanks so much Deborah.

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