Episodes

In Episode 10 — my final interview of the season — I chat with a respected journalist, technology & education columnist for CBC Radio, and guest host for CBC Ontario. Her name is Manjula Selverajah, and she shares my passion for empowering and connecting like-minded women. In Manjula’s case, she started a networking group for Tamil women specifically. Tune in to learn why and grab some awesome networking tips too!

Show Transcript

Each Connect and Bloom episode is transcribed using Otter.ai. While our team is busy correcting typos where possible, it’s inevitable that some mistakes will be missed. (We’re only human!) With this in mind, please forgive any errors when reviewing transcripts, and feel free to report any issues here.

Welcome to Connect and Bloom, a transformative podcast designed for women looking to harness the power of networking, make life-changing connections, and improve their personal and professional lives in ways they could have — previously — only imagined. I’m your host, Despina Zanganas, and each episode, I’ll be chatting with prominent women in the community about how we first met — plus, having honest conversations about our own personal experiences with networking, community building, and professional growth. [pause] Because I seriously believe that inside each of us is a social butterfly, just waiting to bloom. Let’s connect!

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for joining me on the Connect and Bloom Podcast. My Guest today is Manjula Selvarajah. Let me tell you a bit about Manjula. 

Manjula is a Toronto–based journalist, a technology and education columnist with CBC Radio’s 20 plus radio stations across the country, and a guest host on CBC’s Ontario shows. In her former role, She was Vice President of Marketing at the start-up Eloqua, now a part of Oracle, and holds an Engineering degree from Queen’s University. A frequent emcee and moderator, She’s been invited for repeat speaking appearances at Elevate, Collision, the Mars Discovery District, Invest Ottawa and #MovetheDial. Her experience as a refugee to Canada and the role of science in getting her to where she is drives the volunteer work she does as co-founder of Tamil Women Rising and board member of Jumpstart Refugee Talent and Scientists in School.

Manjula, thank you so much for joining me today!

Manjula Selvarajah  1:45  

I’m so glad to be here thank you for inviting me. 

Despina Zanganas  1:48  

Yes, I’m really excited to have you here. So Manjulah, this is a question I ask all of my guests, how did we originally connect?

Manjula Selvarajah  1:53  

how did we connect, you know what, I think you have this, I’m sure this is what it is because sometimes you know you interact in so many ways with people over social media but it is both actually social media, I believe it was LinkedIn, I believe that it was, you used to do this write-up of different things, different events that women can attend that are coming up on a monthly basis. And there was one time that you featured our organization so I thought, What is going on, how does she know about us. So I read up on your bio and I thought, first of all, we can’t believe someone so remarkable knows about our little non for profit in a way startup, and so I reached out to you and I said, Can I meet up with you and just tell you a little bit about our organization and if you have any advice for how we can grow Tamil Women Rising which is a networking group for professional women, I’d love to hear it and you were gracious enough we met for coffee in the before times when people were still meeting and then we just sort of, you know, kept talking we listen to each other’s work I’ve interviewed you once for CBC regarding, your love of clubhouse and I think that, I think it just speaks a little bit to how the sort of the ecosystem that supports women in Canada and in Toronto, especially works if you reach out to people, and you find that you have multiple connections and they’re always well open to introducing you to other people, and sitting down with you and giving you sort of some tips around whatever it is that you need and you were gracious enough to do that. 

Despina Zanganas  3:39 

Oh well, when I saw your profile, I was like, oh my goodness I have to meet this girl and she’s so amazing I mean she’s done. She’s MC for so many different organizations and look at what she’s done so I think the feeling was mutual, there you go. Yeah. So you mentioned Tamil Women Rising. You know you’re the co-founder, can you tell me a little bit more about it, what inspired you to start this, and why it was important for you.  

Manjula Selvarajah  4:08

So that’s quite the story, I’ll try to make it very short. So, around the time that all of the news about the #metoo movement broke out. I was in the newsroom and you know when you hear all of these stories there are also people that call in with stories and you can’t report on all of them because it needs a significant amount of verification. There’s also the rumour mill where people whisper things to you about people out there, so you feel that you’re surrounded by these stories, and I remember at that point that we heard that a woman at a I think a senior partner at a venture capital firm or someone really senior in the tech ecosystem in Silicon Valley, as well as, you know, a couple of really well-known actresses in Hollywood have been part, had been subject to what was happening in the #metoo movement, meaning that they had been at the end of unwarranted and awful approaches by very influential and powerful men in the industry. And part of me just when my gosh I mean if these women are struggling with so much influence and power struggling to make it,  what is the landscape like for the rest of us and it started affecting me. So I spoke to a couple of friends about it and just happened to come upon four other women in my larger circle who are feeling that too and thought, we need to do something but what can we do and we thought, Well, why don’t we do something to empower women, you know, there are several organizations that do great work that do that out there in the mainstream, why don’t we do it for women like us so, Tamil women. Women of Tamil descent, people that are originally from South India and Sri Lanka, but it’s open to anyone who identifies as a woman and what we do is we do workshops we do motivational talks by leaders in you know in several industries out there, we get together for a little circles to talk about things that are affecting at work, but it’s really about empowering a ton of women and their allies or anyone who really identifies as a woman, to advance in their career, no matter what it is and to learn from each other and we know that when we’re surrounded by each other by people that are ambitious, and trying to be really, you know, showcase excellence in what they do, it motivates us too. So that’s what it was, and that’s where it came from, believe it or not it was just, we needed to do something to get over this feeling of this not great feeling of post #metoo.

Despina Zanganas  6:51

Yeah, you know, I think it’s really important. There’s a story I’ve never actually told you the story but I was at an event once, and there’s these two twins that came up to me and we had this conversation and I was telling them about that list that you were just talking about all the women’s events in Toronto, and you know I past yours you know as I was showing them on my phone. And one of the twins like hit her sister, and I was like, Oh, are you Tamil, and she was like, yes, and so she was super I didn’t know if they ever showed up because this was just before COVID This might have been like a month before COVID But it almost like it brightened. There I saw their faces light up right because there’s something really important about obviously connecting with women, but connecting with women from your own personal background because there’s so many shared experiences as women that are different from you know for me, for example I’m half Greek half French. I’m sure they’re very different and you want to really connect with people from your community so I think it’s such an important thing that you’re doing, what’s the feedback that you’ve gotten from your community? 

Manjula Selvarajah  8:06  

It’s been, it’s been really amazing actually initially when we started the idea, it was just going to be very something very small something on a group on Facebook, and perhaps we’ll get together sort of like 25 women together or 20 women and just talk, and then we held our first event, and it sold out in something like four days and I think we had something like 80 to 100 people in that room. And that’s when I think all of us kind of went, Oh, I think there’s something here and, and really since then, we’ve really had full rooms, mostly sold-out events and everything that we do, but you know I’m not surprised because another source of inspiration for me was an organization called How She Hustles. Emily yeah by Emily Mills and I remember Emily once. I used to work with Emily, Emily invited me to one of their events and I thought okay, I’ll go and I felt so this really deep sense of, of camaraderie and belonging when I was there, that in a way, Emily’s work has inspired, what we do, It’s that idea of creating that camaraderie, right. So the feedback we get from people is, oh my goodness that story that that speaker just shared I learned from it or that negotiating strategy that Fotini shared she’s been a speaker on your podcast as well, that really resonates with me and I think, and just the other thing that I found really lovely is women that meet at our events, and then end up becoming friends or having coffee with each other after, and, and we really promote the, this idea of having your work friends that are outside of work, right people that you can talk to about conflict about successes, whatever it is, but they don’t have to be just your, the people that are sitting across a cubicle or virtual cubicle from you. And I love that some of those connections have formed whenever I hear of one, and some of them now come to events together, which I don’t know just makes my day so we’re churning I would still say that we are still in our early stages, figuring it out, as we go but it’s always lovely to have people like you because of, your work with women’s organizations in the city people like Emily, who once in a while we can call and say hey, what do we do now, right so there’s a ton of women out there who also lend us their support and their advice which has been amazing.

Despina Zanganas  10:47  

Yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about I mean, that was one of the feelings that we got when we started. Lean in Canada, me and my two co-founders, you know, we would see people just connect and become friends or just people that they can reach out to and connect with when they need to bounce ideas off each other. It’s been so heartwarming to see that, you know, I absolutely love it and yeah same thing I’ve been to a few how she hustles events and I volunteered at a few of them because I think the work that Emily Mills is doing just the same as you is so important, you know,

Manjula Selvarajah  11:23

And you know what Despina, I’ll add something to that I thought of something today, you know, about two to three years ago, out of the blue, I got a call from a friend of mine that I’d worked with ages ago and she’s like my, MC has is not available tomorrow for this huge event that I’m throwing. It’s a tech event, can you MC, and I thought I’d just come off of four hours of live radio and I thought, I don’t think I have the energy but I felt bad, right and I thought, you know, I should do that. So the next morning, as I’m taking the GO into this event. I’ve had maybe 30 minutes of prep time for it. I am definitely exhausted. I decide to call a friend of mine that I don’t speak to very often but I value our friendship and I would say we’re work friends we work on a project together and I just texted her when I said, I need a pep talk, I said, I don’t do a lot of these things, and I am now doing this thing this is really big and it matters that I get it right for her, and people that she knows that are all sort of in a working circle that we have. And I’m just really nervous, I don’t think I’m like this is not my thing. I’m meant for radios, and she gave me this like over text talk you could do it. This is what you have to think about just focus on the day just focus, take it out for about an hour, just do what you’re good at don’t learn new things in next 30 minutes you gave me this pep talk, and I was actually going to text her, you know, to say that, and now here I have a month where I have six or seven speaking opportunities including being on your podcast, and it feels seamless, I don’t have that. Should I really be doing this feeling. And that’s another example of, you know, Carolyn, the person that I’m talking about that I messaged that day. She’s not a, you know these aren’t close friends of mine they are people I treasure, I would like to, for them to be close friends but we’re all very busy but She’s that kind of a work friend where they’re there for you. In a pinch, when you need them, and I think where you find these relationships, maybe outside of your workplace, and outside of your immediate circle of friends you went to high school with a university with and you know that you’ve been friends with since you were three. These are people that you meet at these networking events, I think that’s why it’s important to go to these networking events to connect with people like that, right, and find people like that.

Despina Zanganas  13:57  

You know what, that’s such an amazing point because I look at a lot of my friends that I’ve known since like high school or grade school or college. Some of them can relate to me but some of them are very different people right so it’s important to really diversify your circle and not just stick to a certain, I mean if you want to grow personally, if you’re not interested in growth and you know you just want to, you know, just do one thing in one straight arrow in your life and you know that’s perfectly fine but if you want to expand your knowledge and get to meet more people I think it is really important to go to these networking events for the so that they’re specifically for people who are looking to grow. 

Manjula Selvarajah  14:38  

Yeah. And I think I like your point about the different kinds of people that you meet so let’s say that you are a doctor you’re I think your life would be enhanced if you met someone who was an accountant, a lawyer, a podcast host a caterer because there’s something really, first of all, then if someone ever says, I need a caterer you’ll be like, I know the perfect person. So you have this sort of, you know list of contexts and you can help your friends out with, but I think it’s also that, that there’s something very little subtle things that you learn from them, that make you better at what you do because they come from very different experiences and maybe people in your space have been making the same mistake for the last 10 years and will continue to do it. Meanwhile, someone who’s a caterer, or someone who’s an accountant in their space have figured out that problem. So, there’s that kind of cross-functional learning I’m trying to think of an example but I can’t but I certainly have had those where someone will say something to me now, you know,. I’m a journalist, we never thought of that way of resolving that issue. 

Despina Zanganas  15:46

Right…

Manjula Selvarajah  15:47 

So I think that’s another thing, the cross-functional learning from a diverse set of contexts that you can get.

Despina Zanganas  15:56  

Absolutely. I think that’s so important. I want to back up a bit and I want to talk about the work, your day-to-day work. You know how does networking come to play in what you do, maybe tell me a little bit about the work that you do.

Manjula Selvarajah  16:11  

So I am, I do a journalism for the CBC I do an education column, a technology column, and I’m also a guest host on our Ontario shows. It’s interesting actually networking plays surprisingly a huge part in it. And I don’t know if it does for a ton of journalists, I think it does for me because I come from working at a startup in a marketing role where, you know when you’re at a startup, networking is essential. Right, that’s how you find new investors, that’s how you find people to sell to everything, people that you can hire, everything. So what it has meant for me is that I have a roster of people that expose me to new story ideas, right. So I’ll give you an example, recently we covered an organization called Burnt Out Daughters and a Burnt Out Daughters is a group for South Asian women if you’re feeling Don’t you love the name. If you’re feeling it, you know, it tends to be millennials, but I think that it now everyone’s sort of attracted to come and do it but what they do is they have sort of weekly sessions where if you are of South Asian descent and I think other women as well, and you’re feeling burnt out from all of the obligations that society puts on you, you call you join the call and they openly chat about these things, and their audience in the number of people joining has obviously gone up during the pandemic because people are feeling the brunt of so many things. Now that idea came to me as a story we covered at CBC but where that idea came to me is because I met this woman, through I mean I’ve known of her for a bit, but she spoke about the idea at a when she was a speaker at Tamil Women Rising. Right. So what I’m saying is that when I go out to events and that’s why I still make a point to go out to whatever events I can I still go out to tech events I go to women, events, now virtually, because what happens is, in, in hearing speakers talk I hear a little threads of ideas that made me think, oh I should follow up on that there could be a story and there’s a potential contact for it. What I miss is going to live events, And not just because the speakers I could probably find their list on a on a promo somewhere. But meeting women and men in the room who share who kind of say oh this is what I do and here’s what you know, here’s something that I worry about, I think, really you’re worried about that. Oh, I missed that and I can’t wait for the pandemic to be over to do that again. So, it informs the new story ideas that I bring to the table. And it also informs the angles that I bring to the table, and the kind of guests that I can approach and I’m not bragging here you can talk to my managers, they’ll say this, I apparently bring amazing story ideas to the table, they say they, that apparently you know if you are short of a story on a particular show, call Manjula and she’ll have something for you but it’s because of that sort of bank from people that I’ve met and now a whole bunch of people texted message me ideas that are in their lives or even things that they see outside. So that’s been a great source for me.

Despina Zanganas  19:42  

That’s so important. That’s so interesting, yeah, like I never really thought about it that way but you really do as a journalist have to kind of get out there and meet people and all that, you talked about COVID How has COVID affected Tamil Women Rising like the events that you have and have you adapted to that?

Manjula Selvarajah  20:04

So we’ve actually done more events during the pandemic than before because now we’ve gone virtual and you could do a lot more virtual. So we do, you know we have a career development book club that we do so we hold sessions for that where you all read a book together and then you get together to discuss it that’s easy to do virtually. So now we have people from like Montreal, Ottawa, that could join in. We have speakers, it’s easier to get speakers because now it can be speakers from across the country you know that. But what I think that we still haven’t figured out, and I’m hoping that the pandemic will be over before we have to, is how to form connection so we’re trying a new initiative called Ask away where we’re doing intimate rooms of people so we have a couple of speakers at the front of the room, we try to keep the attendance under 25 and you can speak to them and you can meet them, but you can imagine that that’s a lot of work, right, so I am waiting again for the pandemic to be over so we can have women form connections again in the room so that’s what we’re missing and I think that in any sort of network that you have that is super key to figure out how people at the end of the day like we used to, whenever we had live events, we would have our panelists or speakers speak, and then we would break the room up into little groups of 10 people and give them a question that they have to discuss. It’s not because we needed the answer to the question but it’s because it forces you to at least meet nine people before you leave the room, right. So how do you do that now it’s, you can but it’s not as easy to do that virtually.

Despina Zanganas  21:50 

It’s not as intimate for sure. I mean there’s parts of COVID that I found a little bit easier because if you’re in a room like in a virtual room, you’re kind of forced to talk to that person, whereas when you’re in a larger room, some people will kind of go to the background and not talk to anybody, right, so there’s pros and cons, You know like I, from my perspective anyways. 

Manjula Selvarajah  22:14  

That’s interesting that you say that so our book club that we’ve had physically in coffee shops it’s usually about, you know, between 15 to 25 people, it’s an intimate group of people that show up when we had our virtual one. I mean, we couldn’t stop people talking, we thought we’re gonna run out of it, because I think what happens is you know when you have everyone sitting around a table there. We can’t all see each other. But meanwhile, when you have that window of 25 people. It’s all equal, we’re all just this big, right, we’re not when we were when I, you know where we sit at the table, we’re all this big, and I don’t know who you know because all I see is this. Right, I mean it was at the point where it’s like, I feel like we’ve already spoken for 90 minutes we really can’t keep this going. So I agree with you, I think that for the intimate sessions, there’s pros and cons with any scenario right and I think that, I think things will revert back to normal. This is just guesswork I’m not a medical expert by next year. But I, But every I think most organizations I’m sure you’re finding this too is that we’re trying very muc to try to figure out new ways to address this problem every month and I’m hoping we have something in place before the pandemic is over and then I really hope the pandemic is over. so

Despina Zanganas  23:40  

Yeah I know me too, Although there’s parts like, you know, I now I almost wish that there was a little bit of like virtual networking like maybe once every six months or something like that you know anyway, for the people who are a little bit more, they don’t want to go to events or for, like, moms, for example, that are parents that can’t come to events because I know that was an issue that was something that a lot of people told us they had kids so they just couldn’t come to the evening events, so maybe that’s a way to like address more people but I agree, like I can’t wait till the in-person events come back you know like I think you’re probably like me, you get energy from people right

Manjula Selvarajah  24:18  

You make a point you know for me to go to the Fields Institute is a place that holds these amazing events for me to go to a Fields Institute in-person event is probably a four-hour process, you got to commute and leave work to get there, you know, make it there for the little maybe whatever little session that they have over then you listen to the speakers, then you have to get home. Now, I can tune in from home. Listen, leave whenever I want to, tune out to kind of, you know, get the crockpot going if I have to yell at the family if I have to and get back into it right I can multitask, though not ideal, I can multitask. So, as a person that has so many different responsibilities, it does make it easier and I want to listen to that content, I do want to hear those speakers speak and so I do think there’s something about accessibility. I do hope that organizations take a hybrid approach to this after that it doesn’t become okay it’s over. Let’s go back to physical events right. I hope that there is a hybrid approach to accommodate all these other people that for all sorts of reasons, accessibility reasons, for graphic reasons, Whatever it is, can’t make it into physical events.

Despina Zanganas  25:33  

Yeah I know I hope so too. I want to switch it up a little bit. What do you think some of the misconceptions are about networking?

Manjula Selvarajah  25:42  

Oh, boy. There’s a lot to dig into there. I think the sense about networking both so I’m going to talk about two perspectives, the person that has someone coming towards you and the person doing the approaching. For the person who’s being approached sometimes I feel like when you go up to people they have this feeling that, what do you want from me. Is that a job. Is it like what is it is it a business card, what do you want from me and sometimes the people that are doing the approaching thinking, I bet this person thinks I want something from them, and we really have to do everything we can to kill that idea because, you know, someone wants to find that working for me, as you just go out there, you’re just meeting people, and all you’re doing when you get out there, is don’t think about yourself, think about how you can help other people because eventually, when you connect several people and you help different people, it all comes back, maybe three years maybe in five years, but I have been in rooms where I approach people and people have walked away from me when I introduce myself. When I tried really Oh, as far as two years ago, I very clearly, women too where I go up and I introduce myself and they go okay great, and then they find a way to get out of the conversation. Right. And then there have been women that have, you know, I grew up in and, they’re “sure hey what do you know”, and we talked about it, you know, it doesn’t even have to be work related, you know it could be about, you know, I need to find a good restaurant to take a date to where can I go, it could be a fun conversation but I think that there are these. Those are some of the misconceptions around networking and regardless of which baggage you carry the approacher or the approachee baggage. I think when you take that baggage in you do ruin that experience, right so you have to park it at home. And you have to go forth and be friendly, don’t go and expect anything, Just go in saying I’m going to learn about a whole bunch of new ideas, and figure out why all of these people are here and learn something new. Go out and meet people and perhaps every you know third person may not be super nice, but work past that right and find that fourth or fifth person that is going to say something to you that just makes your day. Right.

Despina Zanganas  28:17  

Yeah I think, you know, you talked about the people who just walked away. I think it’s important to not take it personally right because you don’t know what’s going on in their life at that moment, right, and also it could just be nerves, they might just be like, oh my god I can’t believe this person just approached me. I don’t know what to say. Let me get out of the situation right or they just got a phone call that was devastating or something like that, you know. So it’s, you never know. I mean some people are just jerks, you know, it is what it is,

Manjula Selvarajah  28:47  

You know, let’s just recognize that it is super awkward, you know, you get an event, and then you’re all kind of standing around these cocktail tables you know the high tables right with the little white cloths, and then you take your glass over it’s just it feels like you’re in someone else’s skin and I think it’s when you go in there to realize that this is awkward, don’t put a lot of pressure on yourself maybe say, I tell myself that I’m just going to chat with one person and sometimes if it’s a larger event, I’ll say, just make conversation with three people. That’s it. Yeah, right.and leave and I think that’s the approach that you should take right but it takes, like everything else in life, it takes practice too.

Despina Zanganas  29:30  

So, how do you think somebody should prepare I mean you were talking, you were just talking about you know being nervous, how do you get rid of those nerves?

Manjula Selvarajah  29:36  

So we did. So at the CBC, we have a Women in tech, ERG. Yeah they did something really cool. A couple of years ago before collision conference I’ve never heard of organizations doing it. And I think organizations should, if you have a bunch of people in your organization going to an event, get everyone together and share tips on how to get the most out of the event. So we basically got together and we had a discussion on, you know, what is this event about, and how do you actually network at the event, and people shared like things that I would have never thought of like where to keep your business cards, what kind of a bag to carry, so that you’re not like you don’t have 15 things and things are easy to reach. Right. It was just so there was so many tips that I learned from that. So I think that the things that I took from there. Have a hand free to shake, so you don’t have to put things down. Have your business cards, readily accessible so you’re not like, check, check, check, check, check, check, you know, it’s like 15 steps to get out the card because then someone feels like they’re imposing on you. Don’t be stingy about your business cards right, don’t also feel like you have to hand them off to everyone. And the other thing is you know, if you can go with someone, it makes it certainly a lot easier, right to pair up with someone. But I think the other thing that is super helpful that I took from there is, if you have the time, I don’t. Sometimes we don’t all have the time, but you know if you’re going to an event and so it can be something like a three to four hour investment of your time, you surely can find 15 minutes to look at who’s coming right look to see if anyone’s tweeting about it, look to see if anyone’s posting on LinkedIn about it and connect at least with those people.

Despina Zanganas  31:38  

I think that is so important. Yeah, that really, cause then you have almost like an ally.

Manjula Selvarajah  31:44

Exactly, Yeah, so it’s okay for you to say hey we’re both going to this particular event just wanted to say hi and, you know, if at any point you want to just stop by at the side of the room and have a chat. I’ll be there right that’s one thing that you can do, or you can look at and actually keep an eye out for people like I want to meet the speaker I want to say something to this organizer, right. And the other thing to remember is sometimes everyone just focuses on the speakers, but some of the most influential people at events are the organizers and the volunteers. Right, so you can walk up to them and find a spot of time, perhaps when the event is over when they’ve got a few minutes free and say Hey, can I introduce myself and hear a little bit about what’s behind the event, what do you do, and learn about them as well so I would say that having if you can find the time to do that doing a little bit of research takes 15 minutes, and giving yourself about two to three people that you can approach, at least gives you a clue so you’re not going there and going well I’ll figure it out when I get there.

Despina Zanganas  32:48

Yeah, you know, I think when people think networking events they feel like they need to meet like a ton of people but I think it’s so that it’s so important, like two or three, because then you get overwhelmed right you’re like, What did I say to that person, You know, you get confused and you mix up people. I think it is really important, you know, just two or three people and as you said, like the organizers, they tend to be people who are really passionate about introducing people to one another, and pretty. I would say influential or at least connectors right like they know who the people are so if you get to know them, it’s really important to I think those are great points.

Manjula Selvarajah  33:25  

And you can even say like if you say that, you know, go up to an organizer and say if you know of anyone that is interested in hearing about whatever it is without sounding obviously too salesy but to say, do you know of anyone in here that would be interested in such or who can help me with this problem, and they might even point someone out to you, but a couple of the other things that I’ve learned over time, too, is that, you know, it might be great for you to find an organization whose events work for you, and then to actually go to more of their events so that you form a relationship with that organization over time. I think that really helps because then there’s some recognition maybe the organizers even know you, but there’s also you kind of get the format so find a place that if it ends up being you know Lean In Canada it ends up being #movethedial or or How She Hustles. But there is a relationship that you form with the organization so it becomes like going to your favorite restaurant, right, the waiters like we know what glass of wine we want to serve you, right, like everyone gets you and they understand you and eventually, perhaps people will say, You know what, just be, I actually mean someone registered that I think you’ll want to meet right so you start actually forming a relationship with the organizers of the event as well. It’s just something to keep handy and I would say don’t be afraid to post on social media that you’re attending something, you’ll be surprised how few people do.

Despina Zanganas  34:57  

That is the first time I’ve heard that but you know like pick one and just become a regular basically because there’s definitely people who attended our events and I’m sure Tamil Women Rising as well, right, you get to know them and yeah you know exactly who to introduce you them to and all that and I think it’s really important. That’s a great point you made. Have you ever met somebody at a networking event that really changed something for you or like a really great networking story?

Manjula Selvarajah  35:31  

Wow, great networking story there’s quite a few. Okay, so I’ll. Yeah, oh my gosh, there’s a few of those that I can think of that. I have to narrow in on one so I’ll start with Jodi Kovitz who I met at a #movethedial event so a girlfriend of mine said i’m going to, she followed the right series of things she’s like I’m going to this #movethedial event. Can you come with me, because I want to go in with someone, and I said sure, you know, I’d love to come with you so I did a little bit of work I was like oh this is kind of a fascinating, a group of women great speakers Sure I’ll go. So I went to the event, and I sort of met a couple of people after, and the person who was, I think emceeing that day, happened to be a journalist. So my friend who invited me there goes, I think you should emcee this event I thought I don’t know, this was when I was, I hadn’t been doing a lot of emceeing and I thought, yeah, I don’t know this is like, this is quite the power group of women here she’s like no, let’s go up and meet Jodi and she said hi to Jodi and said Jodi, you should really, this is what she goes, you should really meet my friend, the journalist and I really think she ought to be emceeing your event. Jodi went, Oh, so let’s find out more, and grab my business card messaged me the next day and ask me again it was so like ding ding dine the next day and then it’s like the it just there was, I think I’ve done two of their events since then I’ve attended their events but there was a spark there, but I think you know what I thought. The example that I wanted to really highlight here is what she did, my girlfriend. 

Despina Zanganas  37:22

Yeah, I was just gonna say that…

Manjula Selvarajah  37:23 

Yeah, where it’s like, she’s great at this. She and I’m thinking back now I think she does this all the time where you go to things and she’ll be like, John, have you met my Jane Have you met my like this is the thing she does, right, and in that way she makes it less awkward because when I say Despina Have you met Sam then you’re like, Oh, well, if a third party is recommending Sam instead of Sam just pitching himself, there’s got to be something there so, it automatically makes her valued because she’s forming connections. So it’s almost like she really gets networking my current approach to the event. Not only did she a lot of people had cleared the room she stayed till the end. Right,she went early. She even though people, she told me sometimes people walk away from her, she just goes up, she’s very friendly, she doesn’t talk about herself, she introduces people, she barely knows to other people, she somewhat knows like this is her thing. So, I think that, from that point on I got to know Jodi a lot better. And I remember that later when I ran into her at a conference and I just met a young woman who said, Oh gosh I hate where I work. It’s a somewhat sexist environment she was in a tech company she’s like I just, I don’t know what to do. I saw Jodi and I said, Jodi, this is my friend, and she has said all of this, and she’s fabulous and XYZ and is looking for a job and Jodi said, great have her call me. So I’ve learned to practice that as well.

Despina Zanganas  38:58  

That’s amazing. I love that. Yeah, I think there was so many lessons in that you know like, being an ally for somebody else, because there’s a lot of people who are kind of scared so by taking somebody who can speak for you I think is so important. Yeah. So we’re talking about, You know, the actual in-person events. How about networking, not in person, I don’t know what the word is exactly but you know, what would you say the other ways of networking are?

Manjula Selvarajah  39:29  

I think that doing some hands-on work for a nonprofit, whether it’s a networking group or a nonprofit that’s focused on a cause, is a great way of networking because you meet, like like-minded women, as an example because of the volunteering that I do with temple women rising, the volunteering that I do with, I sit on the board of scientists in school, I’ve just met, sort of a whole bunch of interesting people that they care about the same things that I do like take scientists at school, they care about science education in schools that’s something I really deeply care about because it’s fueled my life and my career. So I certainly think that’s a great way to do it, And I think there’s also some things that we don’t think of as networking but they actually are. Is this is gonna sound ridiculous Just hear me out on this I’m not saying jump on social media, the social media is great, but I think, neighbourhood groups on social media, right contributing to them in positive ways, suggesting things on them in positive ways as a way to connect and, you know, unfortunately with the demise of the sense of community and people being so moving around so much, that idea that, you know, that are maybe, great grandparents or grandparents may have had of living in a neighbourhood for 25 years doesn’t exist anymore. So now our communities are virtual right so investing in those communities. So I’ve talked about two ideas. And then, even things like book clubs, right, it can be so powerful, like the book club that I belong to happens to be a neighbourhood book club but, but it’s like I get advice on all sorts of things now, right. It doesn’t even have to be that it could even be one of the big things that I’ve noticed that’s come up in the pandemic is workout clubs where people get together and work out, using videoconferencing and my I have a workout club that I work out with now and they’ve been kind of wonderful for support, we get to send each other health tips and jokes. So I think that that kind of networking works to one of the things that I struggle with that does not and Despina I’m hoping by listening to your podcast I can kind of get better at is really finding technology to manage relationships, right. I know that in companies for sales teams and customer service teams we have CRM software salesforce.com and things like that. But what about that individual CRM, like I have, you know what I mean like something that reminds me that you got to really connect with this person, and I know that, through social media, we have these connections but I think that it is super healthy to find a small group of people it could be 25 it could be anywhere between 25 to 100 of people that you cater to like you would a series of clients, and then you look after, especially now when people are feeling really disconnected. And I would love to hear any suggestions for an app of that kind, I’ve tried different ones with very little success and no one’s really, if anyone disrupts the space, please get in touch because it’s something that and I’m not talking about like your contact list on email, it’s got to be something richer than that that kind of helps you. And because we’re so busy prompts you have to kind of keep an eye on this person or lookout for this person. Oh, she’s going to be due this day, they just bought a house you want to send flowers, whatever it is right some kind of a personal CRM system.

Despina Zanganas 43:11  

I remember talking about this with you, when we had coffee the first time we met, you know, I think it is a great idea some kind of personal CRM. I think some people I’ve heard of somebody, she was just doing it manually actually she had an Excel list. Excel spreadsheet of all the people she wanted to keep in contact with because you forget everybody’s got busy lives right and you know maybe somebody’s having like a minor surgery or something like that, it maybe a good idea to like, you know, send them flowers or something like that.

Manjula Selvarajah 43:46

And time flies, you know time really flies I can think of certain people that at work I would see every day, and now I text or message them maybe once a week or once every two weeks. So where has that relationship gone What is it going to be like in the workplace when we all get back to our desk, Maybe next summer, it’s gonna be like working with a bunch of strangers because everyone’s changed in two years, so that’s why I think that now might be a good time if you have the time I know we all have a ton of things going on to kind of figure out that sort of that healthy List of 25 or 50 people that you want to look after them and keep in touch with them and that in turn looks after you.

Despina Zanganas 44:30

Absolutely, just to keep that connection going. I want to talk about, you know, gender issues. I mean, you founded Tamil Women Rising, how do we make events more inclusive?

Manjula Selvarajah 44:44

Wow. Yeah. I think, first of all the awareness, I think, you have to look at events or activities or efforts that you do and really analyze if they are inclusive and that could be a bunch of things it could be not just who’s speaking, who’s attending or even the kind of content that you’re covering, and the perspective that you’re bringing to that content, right. So I think the way that I look at it is when we do a story in journalism, we’re starting to think of these things too right that it’s not just who’s speaking, who you’re interviewing, but the kind of content that you’re covering, so I’ll talk about an interesting thing in journalism, so you know sometimes when you look at a sample show that you do, you might notice that Oh, every time I work on the show I interview a Sikh person about a Sikh issue, a Muslim person about a Muslim issue, and then a lawyer about a legal issue. Well you’re a lawyer could beSikh and could be Muslim, like you have I mean, so I think that there, you need to start getting creative about the way that you approach content. The other thing that I think is very important for organizations to do is I know that a lot of people are putting effort into making sure that they have panels that have a diverse set of guests on them. But I think that you really need to think about how do I make the audience diverse, and that actually is, you’ve got to put effort it’s not a matter of well we’ll just, you know it’s really you’ve got to pull them in, it means that you go out there and you may have to reach out to certain institutions and organizations and kind of, you know, pull them in into your events but it takes effort. So it needs to be part of your mandate for the year to say that this is something that we’re going to do, and these are the ways that we’re going to do them we are going to reach out to these organizations. And these community groups or these communities, and that’s the way to do it I don’t think it’s as simple as just saying oh if we have this panelist who happens to be, you know, a Chinese Canadian that I’m sure that that’ll embrace the audience will embrace it. It’s important, but I don’t think that’s the answer.

Despina Zanganas 47:13

Yeah, you know, I totally agree with you, I think that people, a lot of organizations think that, you know, you just have a very diverse panel, check, you know we’ve made sure that everything’s covered but that’s not the case like you know like, you really do have to reach out to those communities and maybe give them free tickets or something like that or bring influential people from that community. Emily Mills was a great example I remember the diversity she brought to our events when she was a speaker at our events you know there’s. She’s got a large following so. And I think that we, you know, Lean in Canada probably didn’t do that great of a job at that point. Our speakers were very diverse I mean I know since 2013 I think we had 50% diversity on our speakers, but it was a lot more difficult for diversity in the audience and I think, I mean those it’s the audience’s who needs to hear the message right not the speakers. So I 100% agree with what you’re saying it’s really, really important.

Manjula Selvarajah 48:22 

And I’ve had women. You know who come to us. Come to Tamil Women Rising saying that sometimes they’ve been at events that are more mainstream where they don’t see other people like them or they feel sort of overlooked. And, I think that I know a lot of organizations are really trying to make a concerted effort here. I think that, you know, more effort needs to be made, and I Interesting thing is there’s a real opportunity here, there, these audiences are huge, I mean this city, let’s just take the GTA, you know, we know that the GTA is really diverse that’s what we know from the last Statscan data. So if you think about it that is an entirely new audience that could fill your rooms and be part of your workshops in your program. So, this isn’t just diversity for diversity sake you know it is you’re exposing the people that are already within your membership to interesting viewpoints interesting people, but you also have an opportunity to expand your membership.

Despina Zanganas 49:30 

Yeah, no, that’s an amazing point and I think organizations definitely need to do better in they’re trying but I think they definitely need to do better. Let’s switch it up a bit, I want to talk about like pet peeves, are there things that people do when it comes to networking that just, you know, drive you nuts?

Manjula Selvarajah 49:49

Wow. That is so interesting as a journalist is very. I’ve developed a thick skin around this. I think that follow-up is really important. I do have people that approach and needed to, you know, young journalists sometimes, you know women that will approach me for just sort of a, one quick chat session, you know prep me for this interview or talk to me about how I can get into journalism or talk to me about your tech career, and some of them I don’t hear from ever after. And I think, and I just think wow you know here’s I’ve opened the door for you and there hasn’t been really a thank you, which is fine, which I can, but there, but you didn’t, here was an opportunity that you didn’t follow up on right so I think follow-through is super important when you can I know we’re all busy I forget to do it sometimes too, but I think that when you can, I think, just a very simple thank you it doesn’t have to be anything huge just giving a thank you, and somewhere, jot down that you’re going to follow up with this person if something happens in your career that changes, let them know if you just keep in touch with them and perhaps even support their work, right, but know that when someone gives you 30 minutes of your time it is 30 minutes of their time. then and so I think follow-through would be the biggest thing when it comes to people approaching me. I am incredibly forgiving you come, like I’ve had people come up to me and say, I just want to know why CBC has never done a story on my company, and we have a laugh, and we continue. Right, so I, like, I’m very forgiving on approaches because I just, I want to support you in just actually approaching someone so and I know that I can be sometimes awkward when I approach people so I have actually practiced at being forgiving in how people approach.

Despina Zanganas 52:02

Yeah. I even talked about, you know, the thank you, I think that’s a critical one for me. You know, you’ve done a ton of stuff for people and they just don’t thank you.

Manjula Selvarajah 52:13

Yeah, the other thing that I think can be really helpful is, you know, support the work of people who support you, 

Despina Zanganas 52:24

Very right…

Manjula Selvarajah 52:25

Someone once told me that something that they, that I did that I thought was really kind of neat was they have a group of people, because they happen to be on Instagram and they have a business on Instagram. They have a group of other businesses that they just, you know, when I wake up in the morning. I like a whole bunch of posts I put some positive comments, and just giving love out there and now I have this like group of people that if someone’s trying to under negotiate me or someone has approached me with something. I have a group of people that I can call, but it’s the idea that you’re just not calling when you need help, like you actually, kind of, because let me tell you when you put an idea out there, whatever kind of content it is, whether it’s a business, whatever it is you need support, right. So even that little like, Oh, I love what you’re doing it means so much to people right so if you can you know when you think that it meets your, your values, I’m not saying go out and support anything that they do, but I think that it’s important to kind of lend support to people right and not hold back on that kind because you could wake up today and give out 1000 likes and no one’s gonna know the difference right so hand out your love and appreciation for other people’s work and content.

Despina Zanganas 53:45

Yeah, it’s definitely so appreciated. I mean people notice when you’re supporting them, even if it’s just virtually, you know, okay so this is a question I asked all of my guests so you know essentially you’ve probably heard about the six degrees of separation, where you know people are separated by six people, and I love asking this question because everybody wants to meet someone. And what I like to do with this question is to see if anybody in my audience knows somebody that they can connect you with so is there anybody out there that you’ve always wanted to meet?

Manjula Selvarajah 54:20 

Ok first of all, you know that if you’re talking like Canadians, and if you’re talking Canadian women, oh my goodness, the list is massive. So it’s, I could give you 25 names like this. The one name that pops to mind and I would love to do an interview with her at some point, just to sort of an in depth interview with her for a podcast is Arati Sharma, 

Despina Zanganas 54:54

Oh I know her!

Manjula Selvarajah 54:20 

So that’s one degree of separation, Yeah, Okay that’s amazing really, 

Despina Zanganas 54:56

I moderated a panel that she was on, just before COVID Actually in September 2019 So she’s yeah, but let me know why. You’re interested.

Manjula Selvarajah  55:06 

I just find her fascinating, she was at Shopify so has experience in the tech ecosystem. I believe is now an angel investor to a bunch of companies and I started some work around that. And then has found a skincare company around Ghee, and I just think that there’s all sorts of different thoughts right, there’s she was part of sort of helping to build Shopify so there’s that growth, starting your own venture in something completely different. And then, investing in new ideas, and I think at some point, not yes, I’m going to come back to you for an intro. I can’t believe that’s awesome that you know her. She just sounds like someone and I follow her on one of her social media handles, and she just sounds really grounded. Right and sounds humble and I think that there would be all sorts of advice that I could glean personally even though I am not in the startup space, just about life and achievement and managing different things. So at some point, I would love to do sort of a really detailed like a 45 minute interview with her, to kind of glean some of those things. 

Despina Zanganas 56:22

Yeah, for sure, I mean I don’t know her very well. I met her on the panel but we follow each other on social media and she’s really interesting, she’s really funny too. 

Manjula Selvarajah 56:31 

Oh good. And I think we really ought to get into this idea of women, investing. Right, how, you know what, how can we change things by being the people that put money at the table because you know that at the other end, women that are approaching the table for money say that, well, stats also say that they’re getting funded less. So how does that change that scenario, What is she hoping to change and just to get a sense of that world and how she sees it, I think would also be really appealing. 

Despina Zanganas 57:10

Yeah, I think she’s got great things to share. So before we end the show, I always like to answer a question from the audience. So, from our listeners, so you know if there’s any listeners out there, please send your networking questions to me so we can ask our guests. So here’s a question from Samantha, I’m Filipino, and I would really like to connect with other professional Filipino women, where do you suggest I start and the reason I thought this question was great for you is because you know you started Tamil Women Rising.

Manjula Selvarajah 57:44 

This is a great question. So if you are looking to meet people that are Filipino Canadian, I would always say like it’s not really hard to start your own group. Right. To start, it doesn’t have to be something formal with a website and massive like Burnt Out Daughters and as an example the one I brought up before was two women in a car riding, to buy butter tarts, complaining to each other about the pressures their families put on them and thought there must be other women. Let’s just get together, Friday and have a conference call and then it grew and grew. Right, but they were perfectly happy with it just being like 20 women that spoke so right here is a fabulous opportunity for you. There are incredible women that are Filipino Canadian in Canada, like in the country that are doing amazing things. Reach out to them, and it could even be a small group like a mastermind group that meets informally, you don’t have to make it a big deal. It could be once every, you know, once every three months once every six months, whatever the case may be. But I think that that might be a great place to start. I don’t think right now I can think of a group that exists, but don’t think therefore that you can’t start one but I hear through my interactions with different people to my interviews Women will tell me that they have their own groups of people that they meet with that, they get together once in a while, right so that is a thing that people do, and you can create your own. And trust me, all you have to do is find, like, two, three other women and then it’s just, and at some point, if you decide to keep it small, you’re gonna actually struggle to draw the lines like that’s how many people are going to find the idea really appealing so don’t be afraid and these days with how easy it is to do everything you could have one started like today by Sunday, you know, by by the weekend you have a zoom conference call and then maybe when the pandemic is over you all get together at a restaurant, perhaps even, you know, the ones in the city that serve Filipino Canadian foods yourself supporting a local business too but yeah there are all sorts of creative things to do.

Despina Zanganas 59:58 

That is amazing advice. Yeah, for sure. I think there’s definitely a need for every community, I’d really encourage women to get together from their different communities and start something and support each other.

Manjula Selvarajah 01:00:10

And don’t feel the pressure to be like oh we need to formalize it and register it, No you don’t, you can just be 25 women that get together and have a good yap, you know, and we put a topic up and we’re gonna talk about this, the trouble with parenting during the pandemic or negotiating conflict at work, or you know what it is like to be Filipino Canadian in Canada, whatever it is, put it up and trust me when people at that table see each other, You won’t be able to stop the talking Burnt Out Daughters told me that some of their conversations last like three, four hours. They can’t get people to stop talking.

Despina Zanganas  

It’s so funny. I believe and I believe it, people have so much that they want to share so Manjula thank you so much for being on the show it was great, you know, I feel like we were just back  at that coffee shop, you know just chatting away, it was a great time and I really enjoyed myself so thank you so much 

Manjula Selvarajah 01:01:04

Thank you and coffee soon hopefully. 

Despina Zanganas 01:01:06

Absolutely. Let’s get together when COVID’s over. 

Manjula Selvarajah 01:01:11

Take care. Thank you.

Thanks for tuning in to Connect and Bloom — a podcast that empowers women to master the art of networking and make life-changing connections. Got a burning question about networking? Share it below, or shoot me an email at despina@connectandbloom.com If you want to explore this topic further, head on over to the Connect and Bloom website, follow me on Instagram or Facebook, or — if you haven’t already — subscribe to this podcast. Be sure to connect ~ and bloom ~ with me again in our next episode!

Manjula’s Links​​

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/manjula

Twitter: twitter.com/manjaselva

Website: ManjulaSelvarajah.com

Tamil Women Rising Links

Website: Tamil Women Rising

LinkedIn Group: Tamil Women Rising

​Instagram: Tamil Women Rising​​

Twitter: TamilWomen