Episodes

In episode 7, I sit down with Jackie Porter — my friend and an amazing woman whose title may as well be Queen of All Things Finance. Recognized as Canada’s Financial Confidante, Jackie wears many (financial) hats: Certified Financial Planner, Financial Advisor, Financial Speaker and Strategist. Not to mention she’s an expert networker. Whew ! Tune in to one of Connect and Bloom’s funnier episodes, and enjoy some chuckles and chit-chat.

Show Transcript

Each Connect and Bloom episode is transcribed using Otter.ai. While our team is busy correcting typos where possible, it’s inevitable that some mistakes will be missed. (We’re only human!) With this in mind, please forgive any errors when reviewing transcripts, and feel free to report any issues here.

Despina Zanganas  0:38  

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for joining me on the Connect and Bloom Podcast. My Guest today is Jackie Porter. Let me tell you a bit about Jackie. Jackie is an award-winning financial planner, best-selling author, mentor and speaker who has helped thousands of clients keep thousands more of their hard-earned cash in their pocket.   ​With 23 years of experience, Jackie is one of Canada’s most recognized financial planners.  Known as The Financial Confidante, her advice and financial strategies have been featured in top financial publications such as, Forum, Wealth Professional, Investment Executive, Toronto Star and The Globe & Mail. She is often asked to share her advice at conferences, radio interviews, podcasts and television programs. She was also awarded the 2019 Wealth Professionals “Female Trailblazer of the Year” award.

Jackie, thank you so much for joining me today!

Jackie Porter  1:36  

Thank you. It’s great to see you Despina, I really appreciate getting together like we used to, and having conversations I always enjoyed our conversation, I just miss it, being over brunch, really good.

Despina Zanganas  1:50  

I know, we had this great place on St Clair where we used to meet all the time. Yeah. Our conversations are always great. So, yeah I miss it too. So, this is a question I ask all of my guests. How did we originally Connect?

Jackie Porter  2:04  

You know, thank you for that reminder. Because I thought, Geez, it’s been a few years now that we’ve known each other and who would have thought that someone from my gym would connect us. In fact, reminiscing about it just recently I thought I think it was Kathleen Peace who introduced us. And she was talking to me as I was struggling on the treadmill at the gym. You know, it’s really easy to say yes. At the gym on the treadmill, I have to tell you I didn’t even know at this at that time it was gonna be you, I was going to be meeting at the other end.

Despina Zanganas  2:41  

She was helping me organize an event for finance at Lean In Canada, She said I have the perfect person for you so I’m so glad she introduced us because you know, so much has developed since and yeah I feel so privileged to know you

Jackie Porter  2:58  

Well, it’s the magic of networking because the feeling is mutual girl.

Despina Zanganas  3:03  

Yeah. So tell me about your business, or you know the work you do and where networking comes into play?

Jackie Porter  3:11  

Yeah, I think, where networking comes into my business is finance right so financial planning and working with clients on how I can help them improve their financial situation. And often it’s about understanding their numbers so looking at all the things maybe they don’t necessarily like looking at, or look at every day like their financial statements and net worth statement and how much assets they have how much they have or take a look at looking at their wills and power of attorneys, looking at you know their tax returns and understanding what all the numbers mean especially in totality because I think a lot of times we don’t really look at the total picture when it comes to finance you might look at little pockets like taxes or one piece or another. Anyway, it’s looking at all of their financial documents and seeing how that aligns with their own personal story, right, so they might have certain financial values they might be thinking about retirement or thinking about their estate and not really understanding how all of their financial documents can fit into everything, so it’s just helping them align really their personal story with their financial documents and seeing how we can optimize. So how networking kind of comes in it’s, it’s a really personal thing to talk about finance right like you’re not going to start blabbing about your finances to the person you meet on the bus, typically. So, so because of that networking is crucial because it gives me the opportunity to do things like go on stages talk about money, that’s one of the ways we met right I was talking about financial planning at a conference, so speaking is helpful in terms of getting my name out there writing articles. But another really big piece is referrals, referrals from either people who have use my services, but also people who hear me speak, who I meet at networking events, who, you know, we sit down, like you and I are sitting down and we have a great conversation and I tell them a story, and they find it interesting or impactful, and, you know, before you know what they think of somebody who they think could use my service so I think, you know, when you’re in a personal business like finance really putting yourself out there getting in front of people either speaking to them networking with them is crucial for them to be able to understand what you do, and tell other people about.

Despina Zanganas  5:31  

So that actually brings me to my next question, what’s your definition of networking.

Jackie Porter  5:36  

Oh, I think my definition is being curious enough about people wanting to understand, really who they are, what their story is, and how you can be of service to them because networking is all about the giving, it’s not about them receiving. I’m sure like me you’ve been to those networking events where you get there and you haven’t even said a word to somebody and they’ve already given you their business card and asking you if you know people who you who can, who could use, and you might get that blank stare, I’m sure you. And I’m like, let me, let me get back to you on that and I and I promptly try to avoid them as I go through the whole room for the whole evening. That’s not what networking is about like I think if you approach networking from being just curious about people and I love people, I’m a serious people other people watcher or for that matter. And, and I think if you go into any networking event, where you’re just like, I want to meet a few people have some great conversations, learn how I can be of service. It always ends up paying it forward, that always ends up coming back to you in spades..

Despina Zanganas  6:45  

Yeah, absolutely. I agree, it’s all about the other person, it’s not about you and I think that’s exactly what you said, I’ve had that happen so many times people just like hand their business cards and then they off they don’t develop a relationship and you’re like what just happened?

Jackie Porter  7:00  

To me you lose so much because to me, who am I going to refer, refer people to people I know, like and trust. That’s it. Yeah, so know you, I don’t trust you and if I don’t trust you, then how and I gonna like you and never mind tell people about you. And I think, you know you miss out on the gifts of just developing a relationship, I mean, that’s kind of how we met we developed the relationship enjoying each other’s company and, you know, that to me, that’s already a really great thing that comes out there. 

Despina Zanganas  7:30  

Yeah, For sure. So you have a background in psychology Correct.

Jackie Porter  7:33  

That’s right.

Despina Zanganas  7:34  

Yes. So do you think that’s helped you with your networking and all that?

Jackie Porter  7:40  

Yes, except for the people who I tell right away that I have a background in psychology they just assume you’re going to try to analyze them. The truth is, like, to me, my background, there’s two things that informed when it comes to networking, one is my background in psychology because it’s the study of human nature, and I just find, like I said I find people fascinating, and that’s a part of the curiosity but then the other part of it I would say is that informs me when it comes to networking is my background in journalism as well. And my background in journalism is, it’s all about asking the right questions and seeing how people respond and really taking note of that. So if you’re really good observer of people, that’s kind of like a journalist piece that psychologists pieces looking at is analyzing or assessing how people respond to questions right. But people, people used to bug me because I used to be the person who did this. So what do you think about that, what do you think about that so they just call me Porter the reporter in a whole other life, because I just wanted to get people’s opinion and see how people think how, how they feel about things and have really interesting dialogue, I mean I love a great debate or great conversation I find that very intellectually stimulating, that’s one of the things I’m really missing during the pandemic, which is why like you instead of starting a podcast I started with a live because I just wanted to engage with people in a way that felt more meaningful than, you know, just getting on the phone for a little bit or, so it’s like my way of community gathering. That’s probably like why you started a podcast

Despina Zanganas  9:16  

Okay. Exactly yeah I want to share and I want to, you know, let people know how to do it properly, especially during a pandemic how there is different ways of doing things right?

Jackie Porter  9:25  

Yeah, so I think those two things I miss feedback so both of the things, really helped me so you know the thing about psychology that I’m always careful about it and that’s probably the journalist’s piece. I don’t want to label people like because psychology is all about labelling, I just kind of want to learn, get to know people understand and I think that’s one of the reasons, but you know, by no means that’s one discipline that’s one way to get to know somebody, but I think, leaving room in the conversation to ask really good questions is, is the way to learn about people and just letting the relationship develop and really taking it from there.

Despina Zanganas  10:03  

Well I think everything your whole background now really helped right because you’re such a warm approachable person and I think you know it’s everything that you’ve learned in the past has helped that whole process right I think everybody that’s met you have that sense about you

Jackie Porter  10:21  

Yeah, yeah, I think anybody can use those skills so observe I mean, even though my psychology background, talks about labelling, my caution to people is observe without judging and give the relationship, a chance by listening now just talking and telling people how you’re thinking what you’re feeling, but listening and getting people’s feedback and taking that in to actually learn about somebody, and again, how you can be a service to them, you know, how you can, you know, get to know them better and understand them better and, you know, collaborate more.

Despina Zanganas  10:55  

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I wanted to know what you thought. Do you think that networking is different now than it was like let’s say 20-25 years ago,

Jackie Porter  11:05  

It’s probably even more different now in a pandemic. Right. I think you have to make so much more of an effort, and for, for those of you out there who are on who live on your own. I mean I live with my partner and I still find it, I get lonely sometimes because I miss you know being in that scenario where I’m talking to, you know, a bunch of people like at a networking event like you can’t beat that human contact and talking to people looking around the room and seeing somebody who you might just lock eyes and to say, you know, I want to get to know that person. So, in a pandemic I think you have to be more intentional, right, like, starting a podcast or going to online networking events and not just you know, deciding that you can necessarily attend something when it suits you. You really have to, because it’s easy to just stay in your like literal bubble and not do anything and it’s, it’s also easier to become very isolated if you let yourself right because you don’t have as much human interaction. So I think the pandemic has definitely changed it’s revolutionized networking but in, in ways that I see, there’s opportunity as well because now for people who don’t necessarily like for busy moms for people who have a lot of commitments, who might want to go to an event that might be across town or in another whole city or in another whole country. They can network with people I mean now there’s these crazy new online networking apps, that if you go to an event, you can start networking with people there from the comfort of your own room.

Despina Zanganas  12:43  

Yeah, I’ve actually attended a few events and there’s people from like all over the world that are at these networking events, and it’s been amazing. I feel like I’ve expanded my reach even more because it felt it, you know, and it’s been really interesting,

Jackie Porter  13:00  

Yeah absolutely so we have so many more opportunities to network, we just have to be intentional about networking so we don’t get stuck in a rut don’t get stuck in a bubble and, You know, become more isolated than we may really desire to be, but at the same time, nothing beats getting into a room so I don’t think that’s going to go away I think it’s always going to be great to collaborate in person with people and I think coming out of the pandemic we all are missing that a lot more and so, you know, the events are going to come back, and I think, you know, I’m going to be there.

Despina Zanganas  13:30 

Yeah me too!

Jackie Porter  13:35  

So see you there!

Despina Zanganas  13:39  

You talk about all these online, or sorry these in-person events. You know what I think of you, I think it’s somebody who’s fearless. Have you ever been intimidated when you enter one of these rooms or is it like, no, like, let’s go.

Jackie Porter  13:54  

You know it’s interesting you say that so I’m one of those people when I’m full-on and wanting to play full I play full out and I really enjoy being in those rooms, and, and really enjoyed meeting people and connecting with people. I’m a huge, if you’ve ever done Myers Briggs, I’m probably the highest, E, right now in terms of getting my energy from people, so for sure. But yeah, I’ve been in the sit so I can go from that to, you know, being a hermit and not wanting to be around anyone like my partner can attest to that I’ll come home and not want to talk to a soul. So, I think, you know, for the most part, I really enjoyed being in those rooms and meeting people, but I think we all go through a time period where maybe we’re licking our wounds and we’re just not in the right frame of mind and you get to an event and you’re kinda like, why am I here today, what got into me to think that I wanted to be in a big crowd today and get to know people because it does take effort right and you do have to be in the right headspace so you can’t be thinking about something else you kind of have to be fully present when you’re networking or else there’s really I want to point to it.

Despina Zanganas  15:02  

Yeah, you’re absolutely right, that’s happened to me, for sure, like, you’re just like I maybe shouldn’t have come today. I mean sometimes I push myself because I’ve been surprised where, you know. I don’t feel like it today and then I met an amazing person.

Jackie Porter  15:20  

Really funny story to share about networking, not feeling like I should be there. And so I was supposed to meet one of my mentors, my co-author of the book Single by choice or by chance. We were supposed to meet and you have to know she’s an eight-year-old woman she turned 80 during the time period when we were supposed to go to this networking event so she’s getting out so you know, really throws the responsibility on me to meet her there right now. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize she emailed me earlier that day to say she couldn’t make it to this event. So I get there, and now I’m by myself at a place I didn’t 100% want to be at like one of those women’s day type of events where you get like the free goodie bag and all of that sort of get there, and I’m starving Despina and I was like, really hoping they would have food there, but they had like little snacks and chips and stuff like that and so, my mood only got worse, because I’m like, There’s chips there’s like these diet chips I was like not having it. And probably the people I met heard me say, are you kidding me? There’s chips and cake, and so one of the women who I met there said to me you know you should fill out like this contest for this these chips. They’re having a giveaway of the chips and we were, we were chatting for most of the night. Wouldn’t you know it like I leave that event, early because I’m starving and not in a great mood and I actually take the goodie bag and I made this big to-do about getting the goodie bag so I could leave early. So I get a call from the same woman saying, oh by the way you are the winner and won a year’s worth of chips. You someone when you don’t want to network, you become a winner sometimes.

Despina Zanganas  17:09  

Yeah, exactly. That’s hilarious. Did you eat them or what did you with all the chips?

Jackie Porter  17:15  

You should have been my neighbour at the time, I gave every neighbour a bag of chips

Despina Zanganas  17:21  

Yeah, I think there’s a lesson in there for event planners like make sure that there’s good food at your events, right, because one of the things is, that’s where people network right, like around the food table so if the food’s horrible, they’re not going to hang out there and people aren’t going to connect as much so. and like you said, people want to network on a full stomach, they don’t want to leave because they’re, they’re hungry, so, yeah, that’s a good point

Jackie Porter  17:48  

I have to like complete disclosure on this one I was hangry at this event. So, for those of you don’t. Know what hangry is, it’s the combination of hungry and angry, I was fairly angry at this event, and ditched, because I was like, This is not a way to network with anybody I’m not giving anybody my best self right now. So I left but yes, good lesson to all of those people who are planning personal events in the future. Everybody networks better on a full stomach eating, you know you don’t have to have the best food of all but having like protein is super helpful.

Despina Zanganas  18:23  

Yeah absolutely, absolutely. What do you think some of the biggest misconceptions about networking are?

Jackie Porter  18:30  

I think that people feel like they have to go and talk to everybody, like they, You know I think people, instead of having one or two or maybe three meaningful conversations people go there with the agenda of talking to you, you know 10-15 People again handing their business card to many people as possible without actually getting to know them and I think that actually will do more harm than good. In terms of networking and potentially meeting people who could be you could be of service to and who could be of service to you, but always put that who you could be in service to first, and everything else as far as abundance in your networking opportunities will follow.

Despina Zanganas  19:12  

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Um, you know, I know that you meet so many people in a year, you know, during COVID and outside of COVID, how do you keep track of all these people? Do you have an Excel spreadsheet? Do you have a CRM? What’s the best way to keep in contact with people because sometimes it’s overwhelming for people?  

Jackie Porter  19:33  

Yeah, um, I think these days it’s actually easier because you can with your phone. There’s an app that I have and I’m trying to remember the name of it. I’m actually going pull it up because these days my brain is mush in the pandemic, but it’s basically a card reader, and otherwise, I just save the number under networking contacts in my like I can create you can create lists in your phone and I create, like all my networking contacts, then you can save via this card reader and I’m trying to think of the name of the card reader one that I have, if I don’t see it in here I will, I will send it to you, just quickly, but basically it’s it’s an app that scans, business cards, I don’t remember the name of it and I was trying to find it on my phone, but it’s it’s an app that scans business cards and saves it downloads it directly into your, into your system like your contact management system and then I save all of those that I need it networking under networking, networking contacts so I have them all together. 

Despina Zanganas  20:33  

So do you have like a prompt or something like that says you need to contact this person and all that, you know, in a certain amount of days or whatever,

Jackie Porter  20:41  

You know what I feel like the people who I have the strongest connections with We just stay in touch like fairly organically. And then if I, if I think of like for some strange crazy reason if I meet someone, I tend to associate people with the stories they tell me, So if somebody is looking for XYZ, I’ll remember based on you know those people’s stories like oh this person, you know, I think the person I know who deals with mortgages, I’m like, Oh, you got to talk to this person, and I have a list of professionals, people I network with who do different things that I remember their stories and so I can, I can easily refer them to people. But yeah my strongest connections, like I have everything saved on a, on a networking list of all the people I met and my strongest connections. Somehow we are organically speaking all the time, why? because we know, like and trust each other. And like we just enjoyed being in conversation. And you can’t really, you can’t really force that, you know, when you don’t, which is why it’s unrealistic to go to networking events trying to meet a ton of people that you’re going to connect with, as a human, you don’t connect with everybody. And that shouldn’t really be the goal when you go into an event, so that’s. So I basically would say I contact. I connect organically and stay in touch organically with those people because we like to hang out with one another, and then I have a networking list that for some strange reason I know the story so if I go through my list and somebody needs something, or I thought having, you know, an event or something. I’m going to be involved with I think that that person would be interested in, and I go through that list.

Despina Zanganas  22:23  

That’s so interesting because now that I think about it, the people that I remember is, You know, people have told me stories, you know, and those are the most interesting people, those are the way develop relationships by telling them something personal, right yeah they’re not like really high level talk your job, it’s like personal stories about who you are, Where you’re going in life and it’s really interesting, I never really thought of it that way.

Jackie Porter  22:52  

Yeah, and to me, it’s no different than forming any other relationship right like if you’re dating, you’re not going to go well some people do right, you’re not going to go into a room where you’re meeting somebody for the first time you’re trying to connect with them and lead with this is what I do. And, you need to get involved with me. It just doesn’t work. Like people want to get to understand the inner workings of how you kind of came to be and that’s often told through powerful stories, and that’s how people remember you and that’s kind of like everything that you should take with you no matter what situation like in a job interview and dating, everything.

Despina Zanganas  23:31  

Have you prepared a story or does it just come naturally?

Jackie Porter  23:36  

No, it’s. That’s even worse, right, like it’s just, you have a conversation like, I didn’t remember this chip story until we started talking about why food is important at a networking event and I bet you’ll never forget the chip story. So, it’s just, again, it’s just being authentic and being in the moment being present in the moment and sharing what’s actually true and authentic, that’s what people connect with.

Despina Zanganas  24:04  

I think I know the answer to this question, but do you have a like target per year like you should meet this many people per year or it’s just like, whatever happens, happens.

Jackie Porter  24:13  

It’s, whatever happens, I have no target, but I’d like to go to events, I probably say it’s about going to the events that I think I’m going to attract the kind of people that I want to talk to, or having or having events of my own, where I’ll have an opportunity to connect with the people that I want to talk to because, like I said, people tend to compartmentalize their life but it’s really similar if I’m having an event where I want to attract certain clients, those are people I want to like, get to know right because they suit my values they represent my values, which is that they represent my value so you’re going to have a better connection, which means they’re going to know like and trust me better, It’s all one and the same

Despina Zanganas  24:55  

Yeah, it really comes down to know, like and trust you, right, like, that’s how you develop the relationships, it’s all about personal, they’ve got to know who you are, they’ve got to like you, and they got to trust that you have their best interests at heart right at the end of the day so not so absolutely.

Jackie Porter  25:13  

Yeah, so that and that comes with talking to people having conversations where those people’s values align with yours.

Despina Zanganas  25:20  

Do you have a favourite networking story like, you met somebody and it actually just changed your life?

Jackie Porter  25:29  

So I used to do this event at Gilda’s Club, which is an organization for people who are cancer survivors and their families. And I was there because I used to do a financial literacy workshop there and you know, it’s an opportunity. My mother passed away of cancer so it’s something I’m pretty passionate about. I wish there was an organization like that available when I was a child right so I go there and I always get so much more talking to these people that I certainly have ever, you know, given. And so, one of the times I was there, and I have many stories from there. But one of the times I was there, giving. I met this super stylish older woman and I remember going up to her and saying you’re like so stylish and like badass like. And then, you know so she was a much older woman than me and I wouldn’t you know, over the years that, like, I met her there and we became friends, and, you know, so she’s kind of like a staple of person who’s in my family now. And you see us and never necessarily put us together but she’s like my adoptive grandmother. Even though somedays she resents that term because she doesn’t like to see herself as older, but that’s kinda who she is you know she’s, she’s helped me. She’s, she’s also an interior designer so just help me decorate my place. You know, she’s like the person who I had a cancer scare a few years ago, she came to the appointment. Thank god was fine but just I could think about so many ways she’s changed my life. And I’m so grateful that I met her, thinking that I was there giving something to these people, and she’s given me so many gifts in my life. So I’m super grateful for that. I probably look like I’m going to tear up because, yeah, and, and then I think about Gilda’s and is the place that I was doing all of this financial literacy work for and this is like a volunteering and networking story because, you know, one of my, my books Single by choice or chance came out, Gilda’s that I’ve been working and doing stuff for years through my, my book launch there, they paid for it. They promoted it and I held it there and it was just kind of like a full-circle moment of just sort of giving, going into any event with the idea of giving, and you never know how it’s going to come back to you so here they were for my book launch, holding my sex and the city book launch for single by chance or by choice cocktail party there for myself for all the people, my clients, friends, people I’ve networked with and it just felt like an awesome full-circle moment.

Despina Zanganas  28:15  

That’s amazing. You know you’re talking about the woman that you met, I think a lot of people think that networking is just for business, right, there’s so many other reasons to be building friendships can you maybe talk about that like what are the other reasons networking

Jackie Porter  28:31  

Yeah, volunteering was one I was talking about, but building friendships, and you know people think that you can’t like be networking adjacent right like you could be doing one thing and then in the pursuit of one thing, something else happens like you could be volunteering and then networking that way and then meeting your partner that way, or you could be meeting a dear friend or in my case like an adoptive grandmother. I think sometimes that’s why you have to be flexible when you network, and not going there, thinking that it’s just got to be this one thing because I think you’d lose so much other opportunities if you think that just go into networking with an open mind, I’m not saying don’t have a goal, but don’t make it the only goal, because sometimes it’s kind of like people sort of see you and then that’s all they see it’s like this huge neon sign saying oh, Despina’s here looking for a new client. Or Jackie’s looking for a new client, you know what I mean. Just be flexible in your networking, and yes you can network you can be somewhere you can, you know you can network, going out exercising like, I got one of the biggest one of my biggest fans from the gym is this 90-year-old fellow who he’s online and I didn’t even know he was online but I learned in the last few years that like he follows me on social media. Everything I’m up to. He’d be on it, he would say you were talking to this person and did this and this. Week and he tells everybody in our gym class. Do you know that Jackie’s a celebrity? I’m like really? You’re my number one fan. How can I not feel so good?

Despina Zanganas  30:02  

That’s hilarious. Yeah,

Jackie Porter  30:04  

You can network anywhere, like, so I have this awesome community at the gym, and I’m just there to exercise and I never really thought at the gym as a place that I would be, quote-unquote networking I really went to the gym, it was all about me that was a very selfish moment, But if I tell you about all the amazing people I’ve met the gym clients that I’ve met at the gym, are in pursuit of networking adjacent in pursuit of something completely different. But this one woman who I was, I was every single Sunday I was there working, going to my Zumba class, I’d run into this woman and we have these great conversations naked in the shower like I was having. I was going into the shower, she was coming down to the shower. We had these amazing conversations. And then one day she’s like I need to retire I think we need to talk. I want you to meet my husband. So here we are meeting her husband for the first time, and her husband was like “How did you meet? How well do you know Jackie?” she goes “really really really” I’m like “I know your wife really well”. Every Sunday naked and at the gym, having a great conversation of one kind or another.

Despina Zanganas  31:14  

Yeah, yeah, that’s the thing, like I think that’s why so many people are intimidated because they think that, you know, all that business but now there’s so many different ways.

Jackie Porter  31:24  

And it doesn’t need to be at an event, you can network anywhere. I think if you’re open like I love people, so I meet people wherever I go and I’m at the gym I meet them on the street, like I think, just be open.

Despina Zanganas  31:36  

Right. Where are you always going to networking or is that something you’ve learned, it’s just natural?

Jackie Porter  31:42  

Yeah, and I think it’s, it comes back to not necessarily going in, in the, with the idea that I’m networking, I just love people like I’m a high E, I get my energy from other people. And so that means I’m just constantly curious about people, and, and I think when you’re like that, you know, you attract people and people come to you and you know, I could be in a store Despina back in the days when you could be in a store way back when, a whole other lifetime ago feels like, and somebody be like What do you think, does this look good on me. I mean, you’re gonna ask me, I’m going to give you my honest opinion.

Despina Zanganas  32:22  

Yeah, that’s great. Yeah you know I’ve been to restaurants with people before and you know they talked up that the waiter or waitress, I remember this one time, I was at a restaurant, and the person I was with just learned that the person was there and they were just paying for business school and that’s why they were there and then she’s like well you need to join my mailing list because I have a ton of information that would be useful for business students and stuff like that and so they kept connected because of, you know, he was our waiter it was hilarious. Yeah, yeah, and the waiter remembered us like every time that we go there, right. So, it’s so interesting, you have to see it in a different way,

Jackie Porter  33:05  

Yes yeah so you know that the moral of the story is, you can be, you know, network focused or you could be network adjacent. Yeah, there’s always opportunities to network, you know, without necessarily trying to..

Despina Zanganas  33:19  

Right, do you think that men and women network differently?

Jackie Porter  33:24  

Oh, that’s a great question. I think so I think I don’t know if men necessarily and I’m speaking very generally at this point, community but I don’t necessarily think men are a small talk to small talk, interested as women are so there’s some men that are great networkers, but I think they, they tend to be more goal-oriented networkers, you know, probably more than less. Are those here’s my business card. I’ve only spent a minute with you, but here’s like you’ll go sit down with it. Again, I don’t mean to pick on men overall just men who these this response, this, this actually is about, that the only ones who need to worry about this piece of information but I’ve been to enough events with men who are like, they we sit down to that one even at a speed networking event and they’re all about them like they didn’t ask me one question about me, they know nothing about me and at the end, they hand me their business card. And I’m like, Okay, well, do even remember my name? And so, yeah, for the men out there that that applies to my, my recommendation and typically how you do anything is how you do everything so if you take this approach with networking and dating, you’ll have nice get ask a bunch of questions about the other person actually listen for the answer, and think about, you know what you can contribute to the conversation that’s, that’s authentic and be present for the conversation, put your phone away, put distractions away so the person feels like you’re actually there with them.

Despina Zanganas  35:15  

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. As you were saying that I was thinking, that’s what you need to do when you’re dating, you know, you can’t just talk about yourself you need to be inquisitive, about the other person right. 

So how do you pick the right event?

Jackie Porter  35:29  

You know, I have to say, and being fully transparent with your audience, I haven’t networked as much in the last year just because I feel like I’ve done so many events, I’ve done a lot of speaking in the last year and, and done a lot of things that way and I did my own my live event I hosted Instagram Live every Wednesdays as well so I’d love to have you on there some time, but I was going to say all of this to say that I really pick it based on my interests. So I pick it based on taking networking on something I wanted to learn about so maybe it’s picking events where I can learn something, and it could be environmental because I care about the environment so I’m might pick an event around that, like having to do with my financial industry, getting, you know, learning around my financial industry things I need to know to continue to build my knowledge, so I pick those kinds of events, and fun stuff like I think things I think would be they just sound like amazing events to be at like I like to a high tea event, a few years ago that was like one of my, I love breakfast. So, I love getting dressed up so this high tea event. Well, it was awesome because it kind of embodied like we had all of those things that have great food, we actually dressed up. They had a really, they had a foodie person who was talking about how to make a few different things. So just you know it’s like what’s that event going to do. Does it pique my interest? is it fun? Is it something where I can learn? is it I want to learn about? So all of those are reasons I’ll sign up to an event, or am I, am I going with someone because they invited me, and I just want to be in their company. 

Despina Zanganas  37:21  

Right, yeah, those are great reasons. It’s always difficult for some people, they’ll kind of just go to every single thing that they’re invited to. You get exhausted, 

Jackie Porter  37:29  

No, no, you can’t and you got to choose it because, again, for you to be present and do all the things that this talked about you kind of have to manage your energy level.

Despina Zanganas  37:40  

Do you have any pet peeves when it comes to networking or things that people do that absolutely bug you?

Jackie Porter  37:45  

I think the big one is having their distractions happening right so they have like a million different like their phones going, or they’re like we’re just beginning to have a conversation or they told me everything about themselves. And then, I’m about to say something, and then they just disappear and they’re on to the next person to tell you about that. Have you ever been in that scenario? Yeah, me too. I think that’s probably my biggest pet peeve is people can see constantly distracted. They don’t ask you a ton of questions, and then by the time you’ve listened to all the things they said they ditched

Unknown Speaker  38:26  

Been there!

Despina Zanganas  38:28  

So this is a question I asked all of my guests. You’ve heard of the six degrees of separation. Um, is there anyone you always wanted to meet, and I’m going to preface this by saying, you know, this has to be somebody that’s alive and realistic because I’m hoping that somebody in our audience maybe knows that person and they can connect you.

Jackie Porter  38:49  

Ooh, that’s juicy. I think someone that I would love to meet that would be realistic and so someone who’s in Canada, Someone who, someone might know so please feel free to DM me if you do know this person but I think Michaëlle Jean would be someone who I would love to meet. I just find her to be a fascinating lady, she was taking on a position of power anytime we didn’t even see that many women in major cabinet positions in the government so I find her and she was a women of colour.

Despina Zanganas  39:22  

So maybe describe her, or she’s the former Governor General of Canada

Jackie Porter  39:58  

Okay, so Michaëlle Jean I’ll say some details on who you know she was somebody who was a Governor General taking on a major cabinet position at a time, we didn’t see too many women in major positions, especially women of colour so she’s somebody who caught my attention and I, I remember how they publicized the fact that she ate Seal meat, I thought, that’s pretty badass. She was like, you know, eating raw seal meat coming directly from the sea. And I thought, That’s pretty badass tonight and I just thought, you know she sort of to embodies networking because she is going into an indigenous community. And what does she do she sits down with them at their table, and helps, and sits down with for a meal eating their food, and is trying to learn from them like that signals to me that she is trying to learn from them, they’re not just there to kind of tell them who she is and what they can learn from us. So, I think that she in so many ways embodies, amazing networking lessons for all of us.

Despina Zanganas  40:01  

Yeah, absolutely. I remember that story I remember it was so controversial, but I think she did a really brave thing and she really showed that she wanted to learn from other people and meet them at their level, 

Jackie Porter  40:58

Yeah, she reminded me of another person I would love to meet and it’s not even possible to meet him now, because he’s passed away Anthony Bourdain who just personified that he sat down at tables with people and broke bread with them and, you know, wanted to learn from them, not in a, you know, social scientists kind of way, but from a very human level. And I think that that’s important when networking with people is, as you mentioned, just meeting people where they’re at and just being authentic with them.

Despina Zanganas  41:12  

Being authentic is so important and you know it’s so obvious when somebody is trying to put on a persona that’s just not them, you know like, it’s like what’s behind that I want to know, I want to know the real person and that’s when the real connection and relationship with people develop.

Jackie Porter 41:33   

Yeah Yeah, cause I think being inauthentic repels people, it does the opposite of what you want to do when you network.

Despina Zanganas  41:34  

Yeah, it’s phony right. 

Um, okay, so now we’re going to go to a question from a listener, so this is a question from Kyra I’m looking to start my own accounting practice in three to six months. How do I get new clients and where should I network.

Jackie Porter  42:01   

Well, people always say start with your warm list right, who are people that you know, and you don’t want to necessarily go to them but ask them who they might know who might need accounting services, and, you know, how host events, and hopefully this will be beyond when we’re in COVID but hosts, and like some kind of information session for people who might want to get ready to get their taxes done like host some kind of event where you’re being a service to the, to the clients the ideal clients you want to serve as again you want to attract people that have also aligned with your, you know, goals and values, and the way you see the world, it makes for a much more. Less drama free it’s more drama-free sort of business right if you’re dealing with people who are more like you. So put that out into the world. Try to go to events where you think you can meet people who might be interested in your service so you know joining other small business groups but don’t forget about volunteering, I met a lot of people who became clients of mine that I’ve, you know, volunteered with where I was expecting, absolutely nothing in return. So and also follow your interests, don’t, don’t, again, think of it as, okay so now I’m only gonna join business groups and we’re going to do this, leave it open for networking in places that you genuinely want to learn about and places that you want to actually have fun because you know you might meet the clients you want there to because they’re there to have fun too. So you can bond over something other than what you’re trying to, you know what you’re trying to market or talk to them about

Despina Zanganas  43:49  

Yeah absolutely, you know, that makes me think just through Lean In Canada, the organization I co-founded, I’ve met so many clients there and it’s not because I was trying to meet clients but you know it was a volunteer organization, and I’ve just met so many people and you also talked about events I’ve held events about like a real estate business and stuff like that and that’s also how I got clients and developed relationships so I think that, and I’m talking about like online events during COVID, that’s worked really really well for me so I’m sure for you too,

Jackie Porter  44:01  

I think if you pursue while you’re doing this, this is if you’re pursuing doing things that come naturally to you, that you do for free anyway, you’’ll attract the clients you want so if you’re someone who you know has a great quilting hobby business, you know, can’t, can’t you be an accountant who quilts, that actually is great branding right, like, you’re gonna probably get you probably like niche all of the quilting community as an idea.

Despina Zanganas  44:57  

Yeah well, kind of like you, like you really niched into women like I know you have a broad spectrum of clients but you do focus on women because you wrote the book, Single by choice or by chance. Like the more you niche, the easier it is to get those clients and develop those relationships because if it’s superficial you can’t develop them.

Jackie Porter  45:01   

That’s it, and then you’re going to attract people who you’re going to have as long-term clients because you are bonding over more than just a product or service.

Despina Zanganas  45:38  

Yeah absolutely, that that makes perfect sense to me. 

So, that actually brings us to the end of the episode so Jackie thank you so much for joining me, it was such a pleasure. I loved our laughs I this really made me realize how much I miss seeing you in person so thank you so much Jackie

Jackie Porter  45:46  

Same here, hopefully, sooner than later, my dear, let’s meet on a patio once we’re allowed to

Despina Zanganas  45:53  

Absolutely I’m there. Thank you so much.

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